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To: RobbyS
What abouit the thousand years of war between Islam and Christendom, most of which time Islam was on the offensive?

I'm presently working through a WebCT survey course on the World's Religions.  It is rather well done.

In the Islamic section I was surprisingly surprised to listen to one of Islamic experts make the (to me) startling claim that all Islam's wars -- every single one of them -- were defensive wars.  These acts of self defense included Mohammed's wars for supremacy against the Quraysh.  Justification was simple, he said.  Everyone has a right to self-defense.

To his credit, the interviewer caused the expert to squirm a good bit before moving on to the next topic.

48 posted on 02/25/2006 10:40:41 PM PST by Racehorse (Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.)
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To: Racehorse

Didn't the Romans make the same claim?


50 posted on 02/25/2006 10:54:12 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Racehorse
Islamic experts make the (to me) startling claim that all Islam's wars -- every single one of them -- were defensive wars. These acts of self defense included Mohammed's wars for supremacy against the Quraysh.

You have to understand, if you VERBALLY attack Islam, that is considered a LITERAL attack and the nearest Muslim is entitled to kill you. PROSELYTIZING for any other religion is an attack on Islam. The rationale is that you are attempting to commit the murder of a Muslim since conversion from Islam is a capital offense. Any annoyance is an attack on Islam, which can include your existence as a non-Muslim.


MUSLIMS INSTRUCTED TO KILL CHRISTIANS AND JEWS [9:29-30] JUST FOR SPEAKING AGAINST ISLAM [9:32]!

KORAN [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

KORAN [9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair [Ezra] is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS PROHIBITED:

KORAN [9.32] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse.

THIS IS MUHAMMAD'S EXAMPLE JUSTIFYING THE KILLING OF THEO van GOGH and the CARTOON RIOTS:

Hadith Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Chapter 41: THE MURDER OF KA'B B. ASHRAF, (THE EVIL GENIUS) OF THE JEWS [for authoring songs and jokes about Muhammad]

HADITH Sahih Muslim [19:4436] It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:
Who will kill Ka'b b. Ashraf? He has maligned Allah, the Exalted, and His Messenger
. Muhammad b. Maslama said: Messenger of Allah, do you wish that I should kill him? He said: Yes. He said: Permit me to talk (to him in the way I deem fit). He said: Talk (as you like). So, Muhammad b. Maslama came to Ka'b and talked to him, referred to the old friendship between them and said: This man (i. e. the Holy Prophet) has made up his mind to collect charity (from us) and this has put us to a great hardship. When be heard this, Ka'b said: By God, you will be put to more trouble by him. Muhammad b. Maslama said: No doubt, now we have become his followers and we do not like to forsake him until we see what turn his affairs will take. I want that you should give me a loan. He said: What will you mortgage? He said: What do you want? He said: Pledge me your women. He said: You are the most handsome of the Arabs; should we pledge our women to you? He said: Pledge me your children. He said: The son of one of us may abuse us saying that he was pledged for two wasqs of dates, but we can pledge you (cur) weapons. He said: All right. Then Muhammad b. Maslama promised that he would come to him with Harith, Abu 'Abs b. Jabr and Abbad b. Bishr. So they came and called upon him at night. He came down to them. Sufyan says that all the narrators except 'Amr have stated that his wife said: I hear a voice which sounds like the voice of murder. He said: It is only Muhammad b. Maslama and his foster-brother, Abu Na'ila. When a gentleman is called at night even it to be pierced with a spear, he should respond to the call. Muhammad said to his companions: As he comes down, I will extend my hands towards his head and when I hold him fast, you should do your job. So when he came down and he was holding his cloak under his arm, they said to him: We sense from you a very fine smell. He said: Yes, I have with me a mistress who is the most scented of the women of Arabia. He said: Allow me to smell (the scent on your head). He said: Yes, you may smell. So he caught it and smelt. Then he said: Allow me to do so (once again). He then held his head fast and said to his companions: Do your job. And they killed him.

APOSTATES TO BE KILLED BY UNSPECIFIED BELIEVERS:
This type of instruction throughout the Koran is the source of autonomous "radicalism".

KORAN [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

© Religion of Peace

KORAN: http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/
HADITH: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html
57 posted on 02/26/2006 2:04:21 AM PST by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - IT'S ISLAM, STUPID! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth)
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