I was responding to your statement: "Once there's a free country in the muslim world, and this is entirely key, that allows Christians, Jews, and other religious contingents, to live in peace and with all civil and human rights, a concept that runs entirely counter to the Koran, then I'll be a much bigger believer." Turkey seems to fit the bill. It is a free country in the muslim world.
There isn't a nation in the world that is primarily muslim, yet with a good chunk of Christian, certainly not Jews, or in many cases other religions where persecution based on Islamic belief hasn't been an enormous factor.
Now you are moving the goal posts. The Turkey of today isn't the Turkey of yesterday. I would add Malaysia to the list of Muslim countries that allow the free practice of religion. With a little research, I could find more. Indonesia used to be fairly tolerant until the militant Islamists surfaced.
What do you suppose that statement, among many, many others, translates to for most muslims that take their Koran seriously?
Selective quotes from the Koran or Bible don't carry much weight with me. I prefer the reality on the ground.
Call me prejudiced, but to me it says what it says, namely that muslims are to fight non-muslims until everyone's muslim.
As you wish, you are prejudiced.
Selective quotes from the Koran or Bible don't carry much weight with me. I prefer the reality on the ground.
But naturally you've read through both entirely intensely studying their credibility, right!
Sorry, but it's a little tough and entirely unpractical to post the entire Koran here. Nevertheless, if you'd read through it, even the first 10 chapters as I've suggested, you wouldn't be making absurd statements on "context." I realize that it's an unintentional admission of a complete lack of awareness. And yes, anytime you'd wish to go head to head on either, you know where to find me. I have done my homework there, and in spades.
As you wish, you are prejudiced.
Yeah, I can see how in your world I am. You muslim by chance?
Naturally, such text isn't prejudiced, right!
It has been amusing I must say. But my amusement with such nonsense has now ended.
As well, it's interesting that you mention taking "selective quotes from the Koran or Bible." Generally I am in agreement with you.
But if you've read through the Koran, and I presume that you haven't, you'd quickly notice that there doesn't appear to be much context as it were, unlike the Bible where the entire thing is set into the context of human history.
The difference between the two is remarkable in that way. The difference in "philosophies" or faiths is even more pronounced. One thing is for certain, both cannot be correct by design. Anyone admitting that the Bible is credible, absolutely must toss out the Koran or any other religious tome.
On the flip side, the same is true visa versa. So the question quickly becomes one of which God/god, the Living God of the Jews and Christians, or the god, Allah, that was the machination of a madman, pedophile, and terrorist holds greater water. That exercise is left to each man throughout the course of human history and I am no one's judge there. God will do that.
Suffice it to say however, it would indeed appear that Mohammed merely took a portion of the general framework of the Bible, took what served his purposes, which was very little, put in a bunch of stuff that did, and then pitched it as some sort of revelation. For any person to understand the history behind it and then voluntarily believe in that, is well, somewhat perplexing to be very, very kind.
But it has a fraction of the context that the Bible does and that's a big part of the problem. In it Mohammed commands muslims to take over the world but doesn't prescribe, specifically, the methods to be employed in order to do so. Dangerous! We see the fruits of that daily.
It's also why I say that the "radical" muslims are the Koran-believing variety. The "good" or "peaceful" ones are the more apostate who have no desire to carry out Mohammed's intentions. Doesn't make them very good muslims now, does it!