One class size does not fit all

The Lowell Sun ^ | 02.22.06

[Serenissima Venezia]

...public high schools must teach EVERYONE.

That was what I was going to say about why smaller classes in high school/middle school are important these days. Unfortunately, most kids do not want to learn and the bigger the class, the more disruptions there are and the less the teacher can control all the kids or have a sense of who is understanding the lesson and who is not. In our public and private high schools, teachers are responsible for the kids' learning. But in a college setting, the kids are responsible. That's the biggest problem. Teachers can't fail kids right and left like the professors can without getting flak from the parents and the administration. I think it's a lose-lose profession!

[brytlea]

Yeah, that's why I'm not all that disappointed I haven't found a teaching job here in S. FL since we moved here. Teaching in TX was probably alot better situation. I miss it, but it's hardly worth the hassle (plus the fact that so many people automatically assume I am lazy and stupid because I teach...)
susie

[gondramB]

"Schools need some flexibility to add the 21st kid to a good teacher's class when capped at 20, rather than condemn another student to mediocrity."

I can see that argument - I just wish I had confidence the flexibility would actually be used in the manner you suggest.

[Serenissima Venezia]

plus the fact that so many people automatically assume I am lazy and stupid because I teach...)

Isn't that sad? Teaching isn't really considered a profession in this country, making it really hard to attract the good ones. The problem is there are so many bad ones that the unions refuse to get rid of!

And it's sad because I taught for one semester (and quit with disgust). But, when I was teaching, I wasn't proud to say I was a teacher when asked - I was more embarassed. Now that I'm not working at all, I still think of myself as an engineer (my 1st career) and my self-respect has improved! But - I don't think I ever worked harder than I did as a teacher. But I decided it was hardly worth the effort - the kids and administration didn't really care. And I was exhausted and frustrated every single day.

[wintertime]

public high schools must teach EVERYONE.

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And you don't see that as a problem?

So,,,when did one size fit all children?

Think about this. It is sick!

[DustyMoment]

Yup, it's all just stupid, lazy teachers.

Well, susie, I've walked a mile in their moccasins - I've taught in public school. I don't disagree that parents and administrators have a part to play, but administrators come out of the teachers ranks. Parents, today, are mostly just clueless. The primary culprits in the failure of the school system remains the teachers.

Colleges of education remain at the bottom of the barrel for incoming SAT scores and for the teachers they produce. Neal Boortz has a great rant about this on his website. I recommend that you check it out.

[wintertime]

Teaching isn't really considered a profession

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They don't act like professionals. They act like union card holders.

[brytlea]

I think that's such a big part of the problem. Many good teachers don't think it's worth the effort and stress and they go into something else. I knew some really dumb teachers, and some really lazy and bad teachers, but I also knew alot of really good teachers who were as frustrated as I was, but felt it as a calling and soldiered on. I probably would have continued teaching as my own personal situation was not nearly as bad as most (our school was rather conservative in comparison), however, I am not as motivated to teach here in Palm Beach County, so I have not pursued a job as hard as I could. Their loss... :)
susie

[Serenissima Venezia]

Do you have a link handy?

[brytlea]

Please elaborate. I'm not exactly sure what your point is. Are you advocating a system where public schools pick and choose who they teach? (there may be some merit to this, but I'm not sure if that's where you're going or not).
susie

[brytlea]

Not all of us came from colleges of education. I personally went in to teaching later (yeah, I had to go back and pick up 12 wasted hours of teaching classes, but I don't think it had much effect on me!).
The problem is multilayered, but to lay it at the feet of teachers will not solve it, if that is the goal. If teachers are the biggest part of the problem, then you have to look at how that came to be, and I would submit that a big part of that is the system itself which does not reward good teachers over poor ones, and frustrates good teachers who frequently quit and do something else.
susie

[SoftballMominVA]

We recently toured several colleges for my older daughter who is a senior--I was shocked at the number of LARGE classes that were being taught by assistants! Forget having a professor--the TA's were in charge.

She decided on a small private college with no TA's in charge and a class size average of 15.

[brytlea]

Your post is an example of what really galls me. Teachers are not some monolithic being. They don't all act the same way. And, btw, I taught in TX. We were not unionized.

susie

[brytlea]

I've heard alot of complaints (some from my own 3 sons who went thru college in the late 90s and up until last year). Lots of TAs and also lots of them who are difficult to understand. Not really fair to the students at all, and heck, to those of us footing the bill. I didn't have that experience myself, but I attended mostly smaller schools, and the professors taught their own classes (except for the labs).
susie

[SoftballMominVA]

I'm in VA which is a right to work state. I don't belong to a union and never have. Probably less than 1/2 of the faculty at my middle school are union members and that number drops each year as the older teachers retire. The NEA has nothing to offer conservative teachers.

[brytlea]

If I taught here in FL I think I would have to join the union, which would really tick me off!
susie

[Dianna]

Back in the 1950's & 1960's we had 60 kids in one kindergarten class w/o an aide, all learned how to read by the end of the year.

I am somewhat skeptical of your claims, but in any case, I'd bet most of those kids knew that if they didn't sit down, shut up and stop poking the kid next to them that their parents would beat their butts. Their parents probably insisted that their kids work hard and monitored their progress.

Today, we have unruly children with parents who insist that the teacher is always at fault. You can't assign them extra homework because they don't do homework anyway. Detentions given are rarely on the same day as the infraction and if the parents insist that the child cannot miss the bus, then detention is out. Teachers can't take away recess and Principals don't want to hear about problems.

But it's all the teacher's fault!

[Dianna]

If I taught here in FL I think I would have to join the union, which would really tick me off!

I was hoping Kentucky would pass a Right to Work Law before I graduated, but it hasn't. I'll have to join the union, but I'm not sure if I should fight for part of my dues to go to a charity or if I should fly under the radar for awhile. This particular area is awfully conservative.

[SoftballMominVA]

Oh memories of school! I remember backtalking the teacher in 3rd grade, getting a paddling and going home scared to death of my dad. I knew whatever I got at school would be doubled at home. 3 licks at school did indeed equal 6 licks at home.

Nowadays a kid backtalking a teacher wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. Last week we had one kid take off his chain necklace and whip another kid across the face and left a huge welt. The parents of the whipper refused to believe it happened in spite of adult and student witnesses. Unless it was on tape, her son was innocent.

We're not in Kansas anymore are we?

[RobbyS]

The drive to graduate everyone from high school tends to be counterproductive. Vocational education has taken a hit, which means that kids with almost no academic gifts are stuffed into classes where they are doomed to fail. When I was young about 60% of my freshman class graduated. By the time they were sixteen they had dropped out and gone to work. People forget the reason for setting the age for driver's liscense at 16, because it was then that they went to work. Now they work, but only for pocket money or to feed their cars. Then they were starting their lives.