Treat Pakistan, India equally: FO (Pakistan spin alert)

Daily Times (Pakistan) ^ | 2/20/06 | daily times

[voletti]

* FO says EU urged to take legislative measures against ‘Islamophobia’

ISLAMABAD: The Foreign Office has called for the equal treatment of Pakistan and India as nuclear weapons states that are not signatories to the Non Proliferation Treaty, after France joined the United States in signing nuclear cooperation deals with New Delhi, APP reports.

Pakistan’s civilian nuclear agencies are under International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards and the exceptions being given to India should be given to Pakistan as well, FO spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said at a weekly press briefing on Monday. Umer Farooq adds: Pakistan and the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) will talk to the European Union and international community about the publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) that have caused an uproar in the Muslim world, Aslam said.

She said the OIC, at its last meeting in Jeddah on February 14, had urged the European Union to take legislative measures against ‘Islamophobia’ and draw up a media code to prevent the publication of such material. “We are not against freedom of expression but it should not be used to insult any religion,” she said.

She said the Danish newspaper that first printed the caricatures had offered a qualified apology. “First, we want Denmark to prevent such things from happening in the future,” she said. Secondly, it is every Muslim’s right to protest peacefully against the caricatures, but not violently, she added.

She said that the government was trying to find out to whom Afghan President Hamid Karzai had handed over a list of Taliban figures sheltering in Pakistani territory.

Karzai said in Kabul at the weekend that he hoped Pakistan would take action on a list of names and addresses of Taliban leaders that he presented to the government during his visit to Islamabad last week.

“This list was not handed over during President Karzai’s meeting with the president and prime minister and we have not been able to ascertain if such a list was indeed handed over to any other agency,” Aslam said.

[Hill of Tara]

So I agree #2 that India should not have nukes, but because they might be an adversary to the US and not because they are Hindu.

If India was much smaller and weaker, and could not pose a threat to the US I would not care if India, as a Hindu country, had nukes.

[ARridgerunner]

Have you heard of the Hindu nationalist BJP party?

I know as much about the BJP as I know about Republicans. Par. (You should read outside the MSM and liberal Christian sources for unbiased information about the BJP.)

I trust the "Hindu nationalists" in India with nukes about as much as the "Christian nationalists" in America. Which is to say, yes.

Let's get serious. Pakistan has the Islamic bomb. The father of their Islamic bomb has said Pakistan should nuke India. Should India be left naked?

India has a no first strike policy, not so Pakistan.

[ARridgerunner]

LOL. A smaller, weaker India, huh?

It's in America's best interest to have India become much stronger.

You are entirely wrong. But it doesn't matter. India will become that your opinion aside. So, get used to it:-)

[Hill of Tara]

"It's in America's best interest to have India become much stronger."

I strongly doubt it. Just so they can be a counterweight to China? Sorry, but it doesnt wash. We thought the same thing about China regarding the Soviet Union way back when.

What's in America's interest is to be the ONLY superpower in the world. Helping others achieve superpower status is NEVER in our interest no matter how much it might seem like they are our friends.

And India, unlike other countries, has never proven their loyalty to us. We have no reason to trust India, as far as I can see.

Just trying to make them strong to balance out China or Pakistan is rather simplistic and naive and does not take into account the fact that it's possible that one day they might be our enemy.

The Soviet Union was our great ally at one time too, and so was Iraq against iran and al qaeda against the Soviets.

But we went to war with Iraq and now we are enemies with al qaeda/Islam. So enemies change. We dont know what the future holds.

India cannot be trusted with US technology and we have no reason to give it to them, because we cannot possibly benefit.

Havent you ever read "The writing on the wall:India CHeckmates America 2017" written by the retired Indian Army Chief and endorsed by then MinDef G. Fernandes?

India may be a US ally, but they may also be an enemy, and thats more likely, in my opinion. IN EITHER CASE, it would be stupid of us to give away our secrets to a country that has not proven it's loyalty to us.

"You are entirely wrong."

so, prove me wrong then. If I'm proven wrong, I admit it.

[ARridgerunner]

You are suggesting that no one can think clearly if they follow multiple Gods and since Hindus do (according to you) they are therefore not clear thinkers.

Why did you go to India? Apparently not to learn anything for you haven't. Indians (most of them Hindu) are the clearest and best thinkers in the world. The proof is their philosophy.

Off topic, but your ridiculous claim should be answered.

[ARridgerunner]

You want a friend, be a friend, but be picky. It's lonely at the top and we need real friends.

I don't have to prove you wrong. Time will do that for me.

[Hill of Tara]

"You want a friend, be a friend, but be picky. It's lonely at the top and we need real friends."

We have real friends. They are called NATO, Israel, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan and Thailand and Phillipines and South Korea (and Micronesia!!!)

We know who are most loyal, truest friends are.

By the way, did you look up that book by the retired Indian army chief I mentioned in an earlier post?

"I don't have to prove you wrong. Time will do that for me."

I think time will prove me right and India will ally itself with China and some other anti-American countries.

You think time will prove you right.

Let's have a bet. If India hasnt definitively allied itself with an anti-American Axis by Dec.31, 2020, I'll buy you lunch at your favorite restaurant.

If India HAS definitively allied itself with an anti-American Axis by Dec. 31, 2020 you buy me lunch at Olive Garden.

What do you say?

[spetznaz]

Straw man. I wasn't implying that at at but you did do a good job of shooting down the arguement I never made. I AM suggesting that no one can thing clearly if they follow multiple gods. This is in no way something unique to Hindus. If you disagree with me, then ask your priest or pastor about it. If you have one, which I doubt.

The Islamic zealots doing everything from burning down KFC restaurants in Pakistan to blowing up children in Russia to beheading schoolgirls in S.E Asia to ramming planes in the US all claim to believe in one god. However they are surely not thinking clearly. I've also met very many Hindus (in the US and abroad), and many of them have been some of the clearest thinkers I have met. Oh, and I disagree with you by the way (and I will not be asking my pastor about this since there are better things to inquire of him about).

Do you feel it's a matter of little consequence if one follows multiple Gods or just one? It would seem to me, perhaps 'the' key distignuing fare of a religion, or at least one of them.

To me it is a matter of little consequence, and I'll waste some time and tell you why. I know Who I believe in (the One God), and I always strive to live my life according to His will (even though I am FAR from perfect). I also strive to spread His light whenever I can, and I know for one that the way to reach out to people is not telling them they cannot think clearly (some of the most effective preachers, for example Billy Graham, use love quite effectively .....telling someone that they do not 'think clearly' immediately puts up solid walls to any ministry one is trying to do). Oh, and concentrating on this thread in particular, I would feel far safer in the midst of a group ....a community ... a town ...a city ...of Hindus who believe in an entire cosmos of gods than in a fervently religious community of Salafi muslims (who STRINGENTLY believe in 'one god'). Goodness, there are many Christians who are not necessarily Christ followers (eg Phelps and his church claim to be Christian, and would obviously claim to believe in one god, but they are absolute kooks). Moreover, the whole 'one god' test you espouse lacks any real degree of efficacy in determining just how 'clearly' one can think (and I still maintain that is exceedingly silly, which is why I seriously hope you are a troll).

And India seems a stable country to you? I suggest you take a trip there sometime. Within the first few minutes I was there I saw a mob of men kicking some guy who was laying on the ground. I know that's an anecdote but I have enough of those to add up to something, as did every other traveller I met there.

India is, for all intents and purposes, a stable country in the region. They have the rule of law, democratic governance, and unlike their next door neighbors India is denoted by a good degree of stability. So, you saw someone being beaten up on the street. Wow! Amazing! I never knew they actually beat people there! In my life I have never seen nor heard of such a feat anywhere else! By the way, if you have (indeed) visisted India you will also have noticed that some cities have a problem with effective trash management. You will also probably have noticed a number of street urchins palming for help in the streets. Depending on whether you were in the North or the South you will probably have noticed some of the shanty slums. However, you will also have noticed that things are indeed improving. The middle class has tripled (and grows at a rate of 7-10% per annum), industrial growth is second only to China (and note that industrial growth in India has a high degree of internal/indigenous growth, while in China it is mostly due to foreign direct investment ....and India doesn't have the huge amount of bad loans that China has), and things are improving greatly over there. India is basically one of the few success stories in the world. However they do beat people in the streets, and thus they must SURELY be unstable.

STraw man. I never said it did. You restate parts of my argument that you imagine I made and then try and defeat them. My real point was, do you feel a leader's religious beliefs affect his descions? OR not?

You asked me the following question: ' Would you vote for an atheist Presidential candidate?' Hence my response .....what does my casting a vote (or not) for an atheist presidential candidate have to do with:

- the equal treatment of India/Pakistan,

- my assertion that you saying Hindus cannot think clearly because they have multiple gods is outright silly

- that India cannot even begin to be compared to Pakistan in terms of stability, future prospects to the United States (in terms of geo-politics), or the prospect of receiving nuclear technology from the west

- or even anything to do with religion (since an atheist, by definition, doesn't adhere to religious faith)

That question had absolutely no legitimate purpose apart from being a logical fallacy. Maybe next you'll ask me if I believe that the San Diego man who claimed he saw the face of Jesus in a frying pan was correct, and if I believe that indeed it is the face of Christ in a frying pan or just a smudge of last week's grease.

[ARridgerunner]

I say India and China cannot and will not be allies. China can't use India as it uses Pakistan. India is a country in its own right. You may as well say America and China will be allies by 2020.

[Aaron_A]

192 reasons to say no to Pakistan. Enjoy.

http://www.pakistan-facts.com/index.php?topic=wmd-proliferation

[Hill of Tara]

"I say India and China cannot and will not be allies. China can't use India as it uses Pakistan. India is a country in its own right. "

There's no reason why China can't use India. India might even think that they were using the Chinese, kind of like Mussolini hoped to make gains off of a German victory in WW2. But in reality China will be using India. China recently said that Pakistan "is not an ally". Right now, they are just using Pakistan to balance off India. They might discard pakistan if India came over to their side.

India seeks to become the hegemon in Asia (for the short term) and possibly the world in the long term. They might hope that in a war China and the US would annihilate each other and India would be left supreme.

China can offer things to India that it needs. Right now there is fierce competition between China and India for energy resources. If China and India were allied, then the competition would decrease.

China could promise to give India all of Jammu Kashmir, and maybe all of Pakistan and Bengladesh (something the Hindu Nationalists, who think pakistan belongs to India would love) or China could prmoise to let India have hegemony in the entire Indian Ocean. India might believe that they would eventually be able to turn on China or that they could deal with China as a threat later. In any case, they would join China against the US.

Here is another factor which should be considered...India is already overcrowded, and their population is almost the size of China's in a much smaller country in terms of territory. Therefore, India will have to do soemthing about the population, which is rapidly spiralling out of control and will get severely worse in 20-30+ years.

Aside from killing babies or hundreds of million people migrating to other countries, the only solution is more territory. Pakistan and Burma and Bengladesh are already heavily populated. Even if India were to drive the Muslim population out of Pakistan they would need China to help them defeat Pakistan.

But Pakistan, Burma, B-desh etc. are already overpopulated. Sri Lanka is heavily populated and too small. Iran is heavily populated with wild Muslims and has a strong military (and maybe nukes by then) and is not next to India.

Nepal and Bhutan are too small to hold many new people. So, there would seem to be no option left.

India is screwed right?

Not necessarily. Far across the sea, (but not out of reach of the INS Vik and the ADS and India's growing fleet of troop transport ships) is the continent of Australia, at least TWICE the size of India, with only 20 million people (compared to India's 1.1 billion).

Tiny population, lots of space, extremely strategically located, lots of space, lots of natural resources, weak military, looks like a perfect place to conquer to me, where they could settle India's excess population.

Except that Australia has powerful allies, namely the US, NATO, Britain and Japan, which India cannot defeat all alone. That's why they need China's help. They would still need China's help and backing even to take Jammu Kashmir.

And in any case, China could not only help India militarily, but could delay world response with it's veto at the UN.

So it seems like India needs China to me, if it wants to become a more important country than it is now.

[Gengis Khan]

"Hindu nation"? Which "Hindu nation"? Nepal?

India isnt a "Hindu nation" its a "secular nation" with a bigger Muslim population then Pakistan's.

"When America tell it India that is okay to have these weapons? "

I dont think we ever asked for America's advise before have them.

[Gengis Khan]

Check post #6:
India must not have nukes because:

"It's impossible to think clearly when you follow more than one god; hence, they can't be trusted with nukes."

I consider this the post of the year! (LOL!)
Ping!

[Gengis Khan]

"It's impossible to think clearly when you follow more than one god;"

Yeah like....... we cant decide which God we must pray before I press the button. LOL.

[Gengis Khan]

"I AM suggesting that no one can thing clearly if they follow multiple gods. This is in no way something unique to Hindus. If you disagree with me, then ask your priest or pastor about it."

Your pastor told you that? I bet he cant think clearly either.

[CarrotAndStick]

Here is another factor which should be considered...India is already overcrowded, and their population is almost the size of China's in a much smaller country in terms of territory. Therefore, India will have to do something about the population, which is rapidly spiralling out of control and will get severely worse in 20-30+ years.

What nonsense!

You have no idea about the availability of land and the amount of land needed to support a population. India has more cultivable land than China. Most of China's population is squeezed onto an area smaller than India's landmass. The remaining Chinese land area is either desert, or non-arable lands.

54% of India's landmass is arable. China has about 15% of its landmass as arable land.

So what was it? Subjects which involved physics and density eluded you? Or are you just plain stupid?

[Gengis Khan]

Give up Paki.
This isnt your Pakistanidefecationforum.com where some dude will come up with a wild and preposterous wishful thinking and everyone will go up in unison "INSHALLAH!" or "ALHAM-DUL-ILLAH!"

[indcons]

Welcome to FR, troll. Your agenda is so transparent.

[indcons]

The Paki crackhead is on the thread!!!