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To: Shalom Israel

“Doesn't work: you're saying that I entered into a contract, even though I didn't, with other citizens, who also didn't enter into any contract. To enter a contract, you must do something that creates the contract.”

No.

You wrote: “You (or someone in this thread) denied that the government is the "other party" to the "social contract," which leaves no adhesing party at all.”

I wrote: “But that doesn’t leave “no adhesing party at all.” The other adhesing party or parties would be other citizens.”

I meant to do no more than refute your assertion that there was only one possible adhesing party for you to deny entering a contract with.



“You didn't explain where that someone, whoever they're supposed to be, got the right to give me such an ultimatum.”

Perhaps they think they have a right to free association and they don’t want to allow you into their society except under their conditions.

Perhaps they think they have some property right in the society in which they have invested time and money and are unwilling to grant you an ownership right if you are unwilling to grant acceptance of the rules of their society in exchange.

Perhaps.

However, it seems to me that discussing all that is pointless (as is too much of this thread) without coming to some agreement on the concept of the Social Contract.



“So the only conclusion is that I entered into a contractual relationship the minute I was born.”

As I said: “In any case, some of the privileges of the social contract accrue to minors because we can allow that if we choose and we have so chosen. We have also chosen not to require all the obligations of the contract from minors till they have reached a stage of maturity and understanding at which we can reasonably expect them to fulfill those obligations, which we may have arbitrarily declared to be at the age of 18. To do otherwise would not be just. And we’d have to put too many of them in prison.”


398 posted on 02/24/2006 9:29:47 PM PST by KrisKrinkle
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To: KrisKrinkle
No.

Um, er, uh, Yes. A contract is an agreement. The parties must enter into it voluntarily and willfully. A so-called "implicit" contract must also be entered willfully; the only difference is that some of its terms were not stated expressly, but were implied in what was done or spoken.

I meant to do no more than refute your assertion that there was only one possible adhesing party for you to deny entering a contract with.

You failed. An adhesing party must, in particular, be a party to the contract. Pointing to someone else who never entered the agreement, and claiming that they are in some mystical way "the other party", is nonsense.

We have also chosen not to require all the obligations of the contract from minors...

"We"? Meaning, "we the people", or some specific "we" including yourself? There you go again, assuming the existence of a contract even though neither party actually agreed to it.

405 posted on 02/25/2006 5:16:30 AM PST by Shalom Israel (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.)
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