Islamic Truths

Lost Angeles Times ^ | 18 February 2006 | Mansoor Ijaz

[RKV]

[RKV]

[Stultis]

Christianity has succeded in that the more flakey/radical sects have been marginalized and have little, if any, influence on mainstream Christian beliefs. Islam, unfortunately, is almost a mirror image in that respect, in that the more radical groups are the ones with the power and influence (the inmates are running the asylum!).

We can take hope in men like Monsoor Ijaz who dare to speak out. And it should be our obligation to support them in their efforts. for where they lead, others will follow.

Well said. Diversity is an acid to radicalism, maybe especially in religion.

If Islam is brought into constructive accommodation with the modern world and liberal civilization it won't because of a single or universal reform movement within the religion. It will be because various sects, schools and syncretistic manifestations of Islam effectively assert their right to hold, practice and propagate their own interpretations of the religion, and effectively demand tolerance from their co-religionists and their governments. (Thus the importance of President Bush's program of transforming the politics and societal governance of the Middle East and other Islamic regions.)

Conversely the goal of the Islamists (radical Muslims) is to sell their version of Islam as normative, indeed as the only Islam. In fact this is more than a goal, it is an existential necessity. Islamism can not compete, except as a marginal player, in a diverse and open marketplace of ideas.

Unfortunately the media too often assists Islamists in their program of monopolizing and monoculturing the interpretation of Islam. At least that's maybe understandable. Forwarding fulminating radicals (or blatantly hypocritical psuedo-moderates) probably makes for better ratings.

What's more disturbing is the willful assistance that Islamists receive from self-styled opponents of Islam, such as the hate-mongers we find on this very thread. What are they doing except affirming that the Islamists are correct; that theirs' IS the true version of Islam; that there is no other; that any Muslim who claims another Islam (however credibly) is a fake?

[Stultis]

You SUPPORT the beheaders. They want their version of Islam to be understood and accepted as the authentic -- indeed the only -- Islam. They want any Muslim who might say different to be ignored. You're endorsing and helping with both those aims. You and others like you are helping Islamists silence and intimidate Muslim dissenters by spitting on them and denouncing them (in knee jerk fashion) as phoneys whenever they raise their heads or speak up.

You don't seem to "get" that it's possible to BOTH criticize (even savagely criticize) militant Islam AND to encourage and defend Muslims who oppose militant Islam. It shouldn't be difficult to understand. This is exactly what Ronald Reagan did with respect to communism and the Soviet Union specifically. He denounced the USSR as the "evil empire" and at the same time he upheld and encouraged the struggles of communist dissidents.

[Tokra]

Christianity has succeded in that the more flakey/radical sects have been marginalized and have little, if any, influence on mainstream Christian beliefs. Islam, unfortunately, is almost a mirror image in that respect, in that the more radical groups are the ones with the power and influence (the inmates are running the asylum!).

It's more than just that. At the heart of Islam are the words of Mohammad - to convert or kill unbelievers. At the heart of Christianity are the words of Jesus - Love your enemy and do good to those who do you evil.

Those two beliefs sum up the differences between the two religions quite succinctly.

[alicewonders]

There is a lot of hate-filled rhetoric from both sides. I'm guilty myself - but the pain of 9/11 is still fresh. I can't forget the horrible things some have done to us.

I can't imagine how difficult it was to make the decision to drop atomic bombs on the Japanese. War is hell, no doubt about it, but we were not the aggressors then & we aren't this time either.

Sometimes with a diseased plant, you can prune off the sick parts & the healthy part will come back & thrive. I hope that's what happens in the middle east - you're right - there's a lot of beauty in the culture. But sometimes the plant's too far gone & you have to destroy it to keep it from spreading.

I totally understand that some of us have lost all patience & compassion for them. We're tired of it. We're tired of having our freedoms ripped from us a bit at a time because of terrorists. There are lots of countries I'd like to visit, but I don't feel safe there anymore & I'm not sure if I ever will in my lifetime.

It's sad.

[RKV]

The salfist version is authentic. Read the Koran. Understand taqiyah. Don't be a dhimmi. Your analysis of Ronaldus Magnus is flawed.

[AndyTheBear]

So she didn't get in until she put out. The guy's a real sweet heart.

[ApplegateRanch]

Has he gotten one of these yet?

Death Warrant fliers in LA shops

An Internet forum promoting the views of freethinkers and ex-Muslims, namely VINNOMOT http://www.vinnomot.com/ was being published for the last few years. Lately, this California based e-forum had to be shut down due to a deadly threat posed by a group of Islamists living in USA. A deadly flyer has been circulated in some Los Angeles area ethnic grocery stores. I am sending you the image of the flyer in attachment, which is in Bengali. I am also giving the translation for the non-Bengali speaking readers. This sort of fatwa wielding Jihadi threat can not be tolerated on US soil. I urge all the law enforcement people of the land to take this matter seriously.

Thanks.

-JH

Death warrant

FR article posted here.

[RKV]

The Scorpion and the Frog

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."
Aesop

[GOPJ]

And our guns!

You're right -- good catch. Thanks.

[GOPJ]

Much of that sounds like the liberal democrat agenda. especially, the last part when it comes to property rights, personal freedoms, and self determination.

You're right -- there is some overlap.

[Stultis]

So did Alexander Solzhenitsyn exhibit the nature of the scorpion? How about Andrei Sakharov? Did hundreds, thousands of other Soviet dissidents reflect the nature of the scorpion, just because they were Russians? Reagan (who you assert I misinterpret) didn't think so, nor did other effective Cold War warriors. Yet you, and other freepers like you, apply a "they're all scorpions" illogic to Islam. Now I'll grant there are fake "dissidents" to radical Islam. That is Muslims who pretend to be moderate, but aren't. But to pretend that they're aren't also absolutely genuine dissidents (who, like those in the old Soviet Union, often put their lives on the line every day) is false, sick, hateful and counterproductive to the War On Terror.

Why do you implicitly (or explicitly, as some on this thread have done) spit on those who stand up, as Muslims, and challenge Radical Islam at it's core? Why would you undermine those who, if supported and defended, are capable of delivering some of the most damaging blows to our enemy?

[Stultis]

Much of that sounds like the liberal democrat agenda. especially, the last part when it comes to property rights, personal freedoms, and self determination.

Huh? Sounds more to me like the classically liberal agenda: That is those points of basic societal governance on which liberals (center-left) and conservatives (center-right) generally agree, and which we Freepers believe that the conservative philosophy more effective defends and advances.