The top 10 Hybrid myths (Autos alert)

Business Week ^ | 2/12/06 | B Berman

[Jeff Chandler]

A hybrid pickup with the power and load capacity of mine would be great if it used less gas and cost $20,000.

And if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

[SteveMcKing]

I am most excited about Mazda's duel fuel (gas/hydrogen) car in Japan. It's a pilot leasing program that uses the RX-8 rotary engine sports car with virtually no modifications- it simply injects hydrogen right into the chamber.

The RX-8 is a fun model to begin with, despite the few small issues that it has.

[Jeff Chandler]

Wasn't there an early American who harnessed the wind to power his wagon across the Great Planes? I think his name was "Windwagon Smith".

Was that a Simpsons episode?

[HamiltonJay]

Hybrids save ZERO gas/resources over well developed injected Diesel technology... the fact that the Fed gives tax and cafe breaks for this scam is unconscionable.

[sgtbono2002]

Ford makes a small SUV in Gas or Hybrid and I heard the Gas car gets better mileage that the hybrid.

[brwnsuga]

So what is the real MPG for hybrids?

[VOA]

Mazda might consider a switch on the city named in their press releases.
An commercial press release datelined "Hiroshima' might not
be the smartest PR.
Of course, it might work for them if the Mazda is so good that kids
refer it as "da bomb".

[MD_Willington_1976]

Old technology with a shiny new wrapper...

[SteveMcKing]

More like certain people I have known who always have an excuse for everything, "but the problem is never you...."

[DBrow]

lol! Maybe the Gov will subsidize the entire cost? After all we need to be independent of foreign oil by, what was it, 2020?

[FreePaul]

I remember the Wankel as being very poor on fuel economy. The early Mazda models didn't improve on that. Maybe they have made some improvements in later models.

[KarlInOhio]

A gallon of gasoline has about 37 kilowatt hours of energy, or about $3.70 at $0.10/kWh for electricity. I don't know what the relative efficiencies of gasoline engines vs. electric motors are. Also you might be able to get a lower price on electricity if you charge at night because electric usage is lowest at night.

[RichardW]

"I don't know how true this is, but I heard that it can cost upward of $4500.00 to have a battery pack replaced in the hybrids. Is this correct?"

I've done a good deal of research into this matter and think it is an urban myth. I've never read of a single case where the battery pack had to be replaced. Additionally, they carry an eight year, 100,000 mile warranty in addition to the regular warranty. And consider this, if the batteries are not failing, there won't be any demand for them. That drives the prices down. I recently saw one on Ebay with 4 miles on the odometer when the car was totaled. It went for $455.

I have a 2006 Escape Hybrid (I traded in my 2003 Escape with the conventional V6) I can honestly state I am getting 50% more fuel mileage than in my older 2003 model. (About 30.5 mpg.) Is the difference in price worth it? I think it is probably a wash. But where else are you going to get electricity regeneration from braking that is now just lost energy? And this year you get a nice little $2,250 tax CREDIT. If the price differential is about $5000 or so, then the net is about $2,750. If gas goes to $3 or $4 a gallon it will offer significant fuel savings and dollars. Is there any downside? Well, be careful that you take your keys out of the ignition when you leave it on the parking lot. You won't know it is running.

One thing I would caution anyone considering a hybrid is this. Make sure it is a "true" hybrid; meaning that it can actually power itself with the electric motor. My Escape has a 94 hp electric motor coupled with the four cylinder gasoline engine. I've driven it for 2-3 miles on the electric motor alone with the rpms showing "0." I have read that a full battery charge will get you 20 miles before being completely discharged, but I've not attempted that feat. Of course it's nice to know that I might need this feature in the middle of Wyoming someday when and if I run the gas tank dry.

You pays your money and takes your choice. So far I'm happy. It sits along proudly alongside my 2005 F-150.

BTW, there is no plug, although there is a 110 volt plug-in the dash for small appliances. It is all self-contained.

The naysayers can say what they want. But I would predict this technology will be commonplace within the decade. The Toyota Camry is coming out in 2007 with a hybrid. The grill is a little different but much the same as the regular Camry. About 40-45 mpg. They'll sell a ton of them.

[camle]

what about the studyu posted here a few weeks ago that showed that some gas only cars were more efficient than hybrids, and that hybrids didn't live up to their hype.

[XRdsRev]

My business partner's brother Eddie bought a hybrid vehicle last year. He commutes approximately 60 miles a day.

He loves the thing. Says it is great on gas and has more power than you would think it would.

[DBrow]

If your plug in charger pulled 15A (standard wall plug) and you put it on charge for 8 hours,

15x120= 1.8 KW

1.8x8= 14.4 KWH

so $1.44 for an overnight charge.

The question is, though, how many miles do you get to drive with that $1.44 of electricity, and would $1.44 worth of hydrocarbon fuel take you further?

I'm guessing here, but my gut feel is the gasoline would take you further. Which is why the hybrid makers don't put charging ports on the cars.

[Paradox]

I'll consider one someday I am sure. When it makes economic sense, I'll buy one.

[reagandemo]

"A hybrid pickup with the power and load capacity of mine would be great if it used less gas and cost $20,000."

Yep and if it also could be as reliable as my jeep when it's axle deep in mud on my farm that would be great too! I just have a problem with motors and electricity in harsh enviorments.

[pageonetoo]

I drive my Lincoln towncar about 40k per year. I get around 24mpg avg, since most is on the highway. It is a large, comfortable LUXURY car, with a ride that is unrivaled. Ihold title.

At $2.50 a gallon, it would cost me around $1700 a year for fuel. Maintenance is maybe another $1200-1500 a year (not really, but just for discussion), including tires, oil, etc.

A new hybrid would cost me five times what I presently spend, since I would have to buy it, and maintain it. Then, I would enjoy a savings of $-X?

I am not going to ever be green enough to buy one for environmental reasons. All cars built today give few emissions. Even if I were to buy a new Honda hybrid, the extra $5000 in cost can't possibly be replaced by the projected fuel savings. The regular Civic gets ridiculous mileage right now, and the hybrid is a nightmare for the service departments!

If I were to buy a new car today, it would be a turbo diesel from someone, probably a VolksWagen.

A brilliant 5.0L, V-10 twin turbo diesel is now available as an option in the awesome 2005 VW Touareg. MSRP is $57,800 (and goes north from there). The premium over the comparably equipped gasoline V-8 model is roughly $13,000. Is the V-10 diesel engine worth the extra cash? Absolutely. It may well be best high performance passenger automobile engine available anywhere. It perfectly complements the remarkably capable Touareg. All VW models carry a basic warranty of 4years/50,000 miles.

[oldbill]

Articles like this are what happens when journalists try to talk about technical things.

In addition to the myths, add some truths.

There is no free lunch in the energy world. Unaddressed in this article are the additional costs that are passed on to other poor suckers that makes the total cost (energy, environment) for hybrids a lot more than the status quo.

Consider the energy expended producing all those batteries, and the environmental effects of throwing them away, as happens to all batteries. That little battery they put in your watch comes with all kinds of warnings about how you should dispose of it to avoid poisoning the world. You think a couple of hundred pounds of car batteries will go in the wastebasket? Once hybrids reach critical mass states will impose disposal fees on the original purchase price to pay for battery disposal, just like bottles and cans now.

There are a lot of other technical show stoppers on mass conversion to hybrids. Bottom line is that for the foreseeable future, you just can't beat the highly matured technology of the plain old gas car. Just try to find any other energy source where you can compact enough energy in a space the size of a suitcase to propel a 3000 pound vehicle 300-400 miles.