Posted on 02/07/2006 10:30:42 PM PST by Wiz
MOSCOW [MENL] -- Iran has quietly acquired three fighter-jets from Russia.
Russian industry sources said Teheran has procured three Su-25UBT twin-seat attack aircraft from Moscow. The sources said the contract was concluded in 2005 and deliveries would take place in 2006.
The deal marked the first Iranian purchase of the Su-25. In 2001, Iran negotiated with Georgia for surplus MiG-25s, but the two countries failed to reach agreement.
The sources said the Su-25UBT marked the most advanced model of the attack aircraft. They said the fighters received new electronic warfare and jamming systems.
(Excerpt) Read more at menewsline.com ...
Yeah, but do they have "Maverick" and "Iceman" to fly them?
What you seen used during Kosovo was a fraction of what could have been used and deployed. Also some targets were politcally off limits. For example the Yugoslav Navy was left alone. All of its force could have been wiped away, but it was left strictly alone.
What exactly did the Serbs do in Kosovo? They bermed up and hid their heavy weaponry in wait for a ground invasion. The ground invasion was already politically off the table.
Those MiG-29s got nothing. Not one ever launched a missile at any NATO strike force. Brave pilots yes, but totally outmatched on a hiding to nothing the minute they took off.
The air defence systems shot something like 850 SAMs of all types. They only succeeded in bringing down two combat aircraft in those 78 days and inflicted no combat casualties on the NATO force.
You obviously believe that the FCS were totally disabled. Every single one of them? In eight years of conflict we are to believe that Iranian F-14s shot down nothing with BVR missiles? Also today all their efforts in playing with F-14s in BVR scenarios are bluff. This includes loading up F-14s with missiles just to stage propaganda coups?
How nice of 'em to help make another IDF pilot an ace...
Just a waste of money, we'll get to shoot them down soon!
Me and my Dogs of VF-143 flew in the theater you are discussing and I am not at liberty to go in depth into how many ways you are wrong, when you talk about MiG-29s shooting down allied fighters, just flat wrong. You get one magic shot against a F-117, and that country tried to turn it into just the tip of a non-existent iceburg.
The only reason the U.S. did not show what it can actually do in that conflict was because of the weak leader we had at that time, not because of a weak military. I flew many TARPS runs at the time, and have actual knowledge of what we could do, when and how we could do it.
Let Belarus give the U.S. a reason, and we can turn them into dust in an afternoon. Don't blame our military for the failures of Bill Clinton.
For example Greece took no part in combat operations. Portugal also did not take part in any bomb dropping. Portuguese & Turkish F-16s were assigned to operation Deny Flight to monitor the no fly zones over Bosnia under UN mandate. Poland also did not deploy combat aircraft and took no part in bombing operations. Would you also care to enlighten me about 'new NATO members' taking part in combat operations against Yugoslavia? Please enlighten me of Hungarian or Czech Republic combat aircraft taking part. They didn't. For example your then propaganda ministry had German aircraft dropping bombs on Yugoslavia. They even had them in F-4 Phantoms and claimed that they were shot down inside Yugoslavia with the pilots captured. Luftwaffe aircraft did not take part in any bombing, but solely SEAD missions. Suppression of enemy air defences. No bombs but anti-radar missiles.
A country like Belarus can take on NATO and America and defeat them intoto-completely in a total drawn out war. Obselete MIG-29s shot down a lot of allied fighters.
Here you are showing stunning naivety! No Yugoslav MiG-29 pilot made any claims against any NATO aircraft. If you would like to give me some instances of this then please feel free. Please don't refer me to the NATO down table website. That is the worst of the propaganda compiled during the conflict. After the conflict the pilots of 127 Fighter Squadron spoke out and gave interviews to aviation researchers about their experiences. If you pick up the most recent edition of Air Forces Monthly you will see a photo article of a visit to Batajnica (MiG-29 base). Interviews with base commander and not one claim of any NATO aircraft shot down using fighters. The pilots of the 127 LAE were most upset that their post combat reports were altered to reflect claims against NATO aircraft. The ghost writers of the the then Ministry of Information had altered their post combat reports to reflect NATO losses. In reality they never even got a missile off the rails before being shot down. Some of those MiG-29 pilots even gave testimony after charges were brought against the Yugoslav air force commander due to the state of those airframes. The charges were that he neglected his duty in puting into combat aircraft that were long overdue in-depth maintenance.
From the reporting of the court case:
Lawyer Dragisa Vukasinovic, files criminal charges against the Yugoslav Army Anti-Aricraft Defense Commander, general Spasoje Smiljanic. Participants: Dragisa Vukasinovic, lawyer, Slobodan Peric, lt. Colonel , Air Force pilot PILOTS ACCUSE SUPERIORS OF MALFUNCTIONING AIRCRAFT Lt. Colonels of the Yugoslav Air Force, Slobodan Peric and Predrag Milutinovic today, told the public about the problems encountered with malfunctioning aircraft during the NATO aggression. Lt. Colonel Peric speaking at a press conference in the Media Center called on the occasion of filing criminal charges against the Anti-Aircraft Defense Commander of the Yugoslav Army general Spasoje Smiljanic, that his aircraft had been downed due to the malfunction of vital equipment in action.
His aircraft was hit on March 26 after having engaged in a fight with NATO planes, although his radar and equipment signaling he had been spotted by the enemy craft became inoperative. Peric saved himself by ejecting at an altitude of 7,000 meters. Zoran Radosavljevic who flew with him was killed in action.
Peric and Milutinovic noted that Smiljanic was directly responsible for the malfunctioning of the plane, since as the first man in the chain of air force command he must have known the state of repair of its equipment. Lawyer Dragisa Vukasinovic yesterday filed criminal charges against Smiljanic for the criminal offense of non-acting for the protection of a military unit. Vukasinovic said he had knowledge that a Yugoslav Air force MIG 29 had not been overhauled despite the fact that it was due for repair. The charges state that the malfunctioning of the vital equipment caused the downing of six aircraft in the same unit, and that two pilots were killed. Vukasinovic says the criminal offense Smiljanic is charged with is punishable with 15-year imprisonment Six Yugoslav MiG-29s were shot down and one combat damaged. Over the course of the conflict 11 MiG-29s were lost to ALL causes. Today the five survivors are in storage at Batajnica (4 single-seater and 1 two-seat trainer). They were withdrawn from service due to lack of funding and the fact that they need an intensive overhaul.
On the 24th March 1999 Major Arizanov, Major Nikolic and Major Milutinovic all ejected from their MiG-29 after being shot down. Lieutenant Colonel Illic made an emergency landing after his aircraft was combat damaged. Not one of these pilots make any combat claims of NATO aircraft. All revealed in post combat reports that they didn't even get a chance to launch any air-to-air missiles. On the 26 March 1999 Major Peric ejected from his MiG-29 over Bosnia after being shot down. His wing man Captain Rodsavljevic was killed. Peric was one of the pilots present at the court case. Even he nor his wingman even got a chance to launch any air-to-air missiles before being shot down. Both MiG-29 fell inside Bosnia with their missiles (R-27s and R-73). On the 4th May Lieutenant Colonel Pavlovic was killed on a lone mission. He apparently broke all rules and regulations after MiG-29s earlier losses to get his aircraft into the air. A sole MiG-29 was on a hiding to nothing and he was shot down by a USAF F-16 that turned around from an egressing strike package.
Don't tell me 850 SAMS got destroyed, they don't have that much. Perhaps some few,how do you know?.
Please get real here. Do some math. Even 10 x 78 days brings 780 SAMs. That number gives you 10 SAMS launched every day.Think about the strike and recce packages flown over Yugoslavia over that period? Even the air defence forces themselves admit to launching 800+ SAMS during the conflict. This was SAMs of ALL types. Most were noted barraged launched. More in an effort to get NATO aircraft to jettison their loads prematurely. The Yugoslavs admitted the numbers of combat mission flown during the war and SAMs fired. With no possible means of re-supply - the Russians had hung you out to dry - R-60 and R-73 air-to-air missiles were converted into SAMs. These missiles were mounted on vehicle and anti-aircraft gun chassis in an effort to bolster the depleted SAM arsenal.
You are repeating the same idiotic claims over and over even though you've been intellectually body-slammed on this thread. You're obviously not even reading the responses to your inane comments.
You're probably right. It's how Iranians think ... the question is, why three? When one would do?
The number of SAMs fired is not known, but may not be near the number you claim. The following quote is from a report for the U.S. House of Representatives on the war over Yugoslavia:
"Dozens of surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) were fired by Yugoslavia against NATO aircraft and more than 50 SAM
sites were attacked."
The choice of words here in a post war assesment is interesting, esp if 750+ missiles had been fired. Of course, alot of sorties were flown by NATO, but weather was a huge factor during most of the war for both sides. We flew at high altitude and the weather hampered our air campaign (partially for political reasons) and it probably hampered their ability as well.
At the tactical level, we claimed to have destroyed a great number of Serb tank, APC, and artillery pieces, but that may not be accurate. A famous Newsweek article pointed out the good conditions of the Serb forces and the large number of tanks and other equipment that they took with them. Equipment in numbers and condition that contradicted claims from NATO sources about the amount of damage they had inflicted. The same report to the U.S. House hints at the same thing:
"As post-bombing assessments continue, reports indicate that the extent of damage inflicted on the Yugoslav
military was not as extensive as previously believed. Many of the targets struck by allied pilots were judged
to be decoys. The approximately 47,000 Yugoslav troops, paramilitary, and police forces that withdrew
from Kosovo took with them 220 tanks, 300 armored personnel carriers, 308 artillery batteries, and hundreds
of other military vehicles and pieces of military equipment. Damaged tanks and other heavy weapons were
also removed by withdrawing Yugoslav forces. An official U.S. review of the air campaign is to be conducted,
led by Deputy Secretary of Defense John Hamre and Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General
Joseph Ralston."
In terms of losses, we officially lost one F-16, one Harrier, one AH-64, and the infamous F-117.
But, our bombing ability is still second to none, and we were able to pound fixed targets with near pin point accuracy from high altitude out of "effective" range of their air defenses. This created enough pressure to force the Serbs to leave Kosovo.
Pukin,
When the airstrikes are called in against the Iranian nuclear program, will the weapon of choice for CENTCOM be B-2 Spirits, or F-117.
Also, I remember reading about a year ago that when we bombed a bunker of Saddam's in Iraq with bunker busters that our bombs didn't put a dent in the underground bunker. Do we have weapons that can hit the centrifuges in Natanz which are underground?
Thanks much
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.