Posted on 02/07/2006 9:59:00 AM PST by boryeulb
Are you really that uneducated? The Posse Comitatus Act applies only within the US. Good grief...
First you stop the illegals from coming over the border.
That's what everyone agrees on.
That's what the current president is NOT doing.
The consequences of failiing to stop the invasion of illegals coming over the border are far more severe than anything coming out of the middle east.
July 15, 2005 - The Senate backed away from its 2004 pledge to hire 2,000 more Border Patrol agents and fund 8,000 new detention beds for illegal aliens in fiscal 2006. The intelligence overhaul bill passed by Congress and signed into law in last December called for 2,000 new agents and 8,000 new detention beds each year for the next five years in order to meet the threat posed by illegal aliens. But in mid-July, the Senate voted on amendments to the Department of Homeland Security spending bill, providing funds for only 1,000 more agents and 2,240 more detention beds in fiscal 2006.
Also, the agents still have to be trained and the facilities built.
You used a double negative. Anyway, you obviously have a personal problem with Hayworth and its distorting your view of reality. Being from Arizona, Hayworth is close to the problem and can see first hand the the consequences that derive from it. It is entirely appropriate for him to use whatever means necessary to educate his constituents and other interested parties. Because, its clear there are people that need to be educated.
Exactly. Some of us do learn from history.
It just never ceases to amaze me though, that some people on this forum think Bush can just order the military on the border and that will solve the problem.
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Actually this has already been done quietly in New Mexico for training purposes. The results have been great. But I don't think the thing was extended. There was plenty of footage on this at Fox a couple months back. Might have been some relationship between the coverage and the brevity of the program.
As it is there are several training grounds close to the Mexican border that have trouble with illegals sometimes overruning their bases.
Current US border policy is to not offend in any way Mexican soldiers crossing into US territory to protect narco trafficers.
Just noticed that your link was to Rep. Hsyworth's announcement, not the bill itself. So, the thread needs both our posts. Good job.
Right...y'all keep on spewing the same talking points without addressing the facts. Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain, aka Congress.
Repeal of Posse Comitatus - Congress has to do that
Funding of additional guards, equipment and fences - Congress has to do that.
Passing immigration reform - they don't like Bush's plan, so again, it falls to Congress to act.
Then Hayworth needs to contact the Governor of his state and order the NG to the border. Only the Governor can do that. My problem with Hayworth is that he is fearmongering to sell a book because he knows good and well that Bush's plan was DOA, that is a reality. Yes, it is very clear to me that people need to be educated. Apparently they are not teaching Civics anymore. However, there is no excuse for Hayworth to outright lie about this matter.
Order the military to guard the US border? Why, that would be too much to ask the president to do. Oh wait. Didn't he order the military go around the world to Iraq and Afghanistan. oops.Posse Comitatus prevents the President from using the military to guard the border. It is Congress's responsibility to amend or repeal it. It is up to the state's individual Governors to call up the NG if they deem it necessary. Bush has no control over this.37 posted on 02/07/2006 11:12:27 AM PST by Mulch (tm)
I agree with you wholeheartedly--JD Hayworth is one of the (few) good guys. He isn't as strong of a defender of the Constitution that Rep. RON PAUL is, but still, I admire him a great deal & wish him all the best.
I find it sad that we can't find more people like JD Hayworth, Tom Coburn, RON PAUL, & Tom Tancredo & elect them into Congress...I'm sure there's plenty of them out there.
Questions/Comments
#1 Who will keep out those not eligible? Who will keep track of the ones who do qualify while they are here? Who will make them leave when it is time for them to leave? We already have many who came here legally on the pretense of visiting, going to school, etc., and simply stayed when their time was up. Immigration has admitted they cannot keep track of those who came here legally and did not leave when they are supposed to now. Those millions who are here illegally now were not concerned with breaking a law to get here; why would we think they would worry about breaking another to stay here?
I like #2 and #3.
If you think #4 is the answer to #1 you are kidding yourself. We don't have enough facilities to detain the illegals, we can't keep out those deported now, without a fence the border is an open revolving door. We have done nothing but pour money at the border and yet we have a mass invasion of illegals. The first step in any plan is to build a real fence, no other plan will work without a major barrier. A major barrier must be in place before enforcement will be possible.
This plan is nothing more than a way to make the illegals legal. It in no way will solve the problems of illegal immigration. Illegal immigration will continue even if we had this plan, many (I would bet most) will not want to take the time and trouble to qualify legally, and will just continue to illegally cross the border.
If we build a real fence, and if we strictly enforce the laws as they are now, if we implement #2 and #3 of this plan and if there is proven to be a real need for labor then and only then should we discuss a "guest worker plan" remember previous plans to stop illegal immigration failed due to lack of enforcement and any effective enforcement is just not possible without a fence.
You are so freaking off base it is not even funny. I live in South Texas, neither you nor Hayworth have to tell me about the problem. Good grief...trying to explain facts to you is like talking to a Democrat, you can't deviate from your talking points or hold a thought long enough to learn the facts. Do yourself a favor, take a civics class for cripe's sake. I've got better things to do than to talk to brick walls.
Sorry, but you are wrong. Increased enforcement and rapid deportation, along with a complete shut-down on the ability of illegals to work here (by passing strong legislation penalizing businesses for hiring them) is the ONLY long-term answer. The "fence" is a pipe dream. Even if the "fence" is built, do you honestly think the flow will stop?? It might slow down some, but in the main it will simply move "offshore" to our thousands and thousands of miles of coastline, and to our northern "friend" Canada--whose border is so long that it is impossible to "fence".
Along with everything you said, of which I agree, I think that there are areas of the border where a partial fence may be in order. A more cost effective method may just be building more vehicle barriers to help curtail smuggling.
http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm
You are being disingenious. Nowhere in the Posse Comitatus Act is the word borders mentioned. I asked you twice and I'll ask you again:
Are the borders considered international territory or not?
Your love of President Bush is seriously eroding your judgement.
The Act doesn't pertain to the borders, I've told you that a million times.
Funding of additional guards, equipment and fences - Congress has to do that.
The money is already there, it is being misdirected in other Dept of Homeland Security pork-barrel adventures.
Passing immigration reform - they don't like Bush's plan, so again, it falls to Congress to act.
Bush isn't using the Executive Powers granted to him to enforce existing immigration laws. This is why Tancredo, Hayworth and others are "whining" for Bush to do something. Why would they waste their time trying to pass immigration bills when it's going to get watered down or stripped by arm-twisting from the Bush administration themselves?
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