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To: Dark Skies
Today, the incumbent leader of a modern nation-state is making warlike and virulently anti-Semitic pronouncements with almost no knowledgeable comment from the visible pool of experts in the mass media.

What does that have to do with the return of the 12th Iman and the other ways Ahmedinijad is supposed to be defined by his theology? Is there some way in which Twelver doctrine translates into war, with Israel in particular or infidels in general, that is distinct from current run-of-the-mill Islamic nuttiness? Or, operationally if not theologically, is this guy pretty much indistinguishable from Bin Laden, etc.?

16 posted on 01/25/2006 12:30:55 PM PST by untenured (http://futureuncertain.blogspot.com)
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To: untenured
He's suppose to reappear in a Armageddon type war and bring victory to the Muslims. Ahmedinijad is trying to bring Armageddon so that the hidden Imam will return and give them victory. Or so the theory goes...
36 posted on 01/25/2006 1:19:55 PM PST by DB (©)
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To: untenured
"Today, the incumbent leader of a modern nation-state is making warlike and virulently anti-Semitic pronouncements with almost no knowledgeable comment from the visible pool of experts in the mass media."
What does that have to do with the return of the 12th Iman and the other ways Ahmedinijad is supposed to be defined by his theology?

I agree with Dr. Swalis that our "experts" are failing us by not providing us with the needed intelligence that our Islamic enemies are operating under a belief that these are the End Times. We seem to be treating Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, the PLO, etc. as if they have merely geo-political disagreements with us.

Is there some way in which Twelver doctrine translates into war, with Israel in particular or infidels in general, that is distinct from current run-of-the-mill Islamic nuttiness?

It directly translates into Global War. The Mahdi is "predestined" to kill the Dajjal and his associates. The imams have been interpretting the Hadith that either 1) the Dajjal is a metaphor personifying Western Civilization and Western Culture and everyone who belongs to or identifies with the West -- or 2) that the West will be the base of power of the Dajjal, and everyone who contributes to the power of the US and her allies is de facto a collaborator with the Dajjal.

The Mahdi and his army will kill the Dajjal and his associates, and convert anyone left to Islam. Then he will govern a world-wide Islamic Utopia for an era untill Allah wraps it all up on Judgment Day.

When a Muslim says the word Mahdi, the inference is that everyone else on the planet will either convert or die.

Or, operationally if not theologically, is this guy pretty much indistinguishable from Bin Laden, etc.?

For Shi'ites, the Mahdi is the Twelfth Imam, returning after centuries of hiding. For Sunnis, the Mahdi will be the restorer of the Caliphate -- this time world-wide. Bin Laden has always been talking about the restoration of the Caliphate. He drops numerous other hints about the End Times. But OBL also often talks in terms of more "secular" geopolitics and economics.

I cannot say who particularly believes what, but I can say that for decades the Muslim world has deluged with discussion of this topic. Go do a google search on mahdi mehdi / dajjal dajjaal / qiyama qiyamah qiyamat and see what you find.

74 posted on 01/25/2006 4:39:07 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: untenured
What does that have to do with the return of the 12th Iman and the other ways Ahmedinijad is supposed to be defined by his theology?

He suffers from the delusion that his messiah will not come until the world is engulfed in chaos. He further believes that he can hasten the "return" by creating chaos. That is what makes him so dangerous.

76 posted on 01/25/2006 4:42:11 PM PST by Colorado Doug (Diversity is divisive. E. Pluribus Unum (Out of many, one))
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To: untenured
Is there some way in which Twelver doctrine translates into war, with Israel in particular or infidels in general, that is distinct from current run-of-the-mill Islamic nuttiness?

I reread this question of yours. First, as I've said in posts above, it's not just the Twelvers -- the whole Muslim world is filled with Apocalyptic talk. So let me answer in terms of how "Qiyamic doctrine" jihad differs from your "run of the mill" jihad ."

You do not need to believe it's the End of the World to be an Islamic terrorist. They can come up with plenty of reasons to make war on the infidels and to think its their religious duty to kill us.

But I suspect that if it were a run-of-the-mill jihad, they would act more like, say, the IRA in Northern Ireland. Kill the infidels and drive the rest out, so that we can have a pure Islamic nation to ourselves. Plant bombs and then run away so you can plant more tomorrow.

I believe the suicidal bent of the current jihad is traceable to the prevelant opinion that we are at the End of History. There is NO FUTURE. So join the Mahdi's army and strap on a dynamite belt. Why not?

Even though the "ordinary" jihadist is a religious fanatic, he should still be planning strategy like a chess game, so that his side gains advantages and the other side falters.

But the "Qiyamic" jihadist will be bursting with confidence that God has already shown him that the story ends with his side winning. There is no possibility of loss, so there is no need to carefully strategize. Anything goes. You can be as reckless as you want, because Allah has guaranteed victory in the Hadith.

Allah can even guarantee that if a nuclear bomb goes off, your guy will survive unfazed while the infidel standing next to him burns. Allah has already said that after the jihad there will be a peaceful Islamic utopia. So there cannot be any lingering radiation. There just can't.

But an "ordinary" jihadist would act more carefully. Qiyamic doctrine adds

91 posted on 01/25/2006 8:11:29 PM PST by Dajjal
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