WorldWatch - Creation and Evolution in the Schools

World Watch and The Rhinoceros Times ^ | January 8, 2006 | Orson Scott Card

[CobaltBlue]

Harvard, Yale and Princeton are all private schools, all founded as religious schools. Thus, they can teach religion in science class if they want to.

It's "separaton of church and state" that keeps religion out of public schools. Although, not entirely. It's ok to teach comparative religion in public school.

[Tolik]

OSC clearly does not want to mix his belief in God and his love of science. While lots of stuff in this article is debatable, the overall tone is in favor of evolution and against calling ID science. Some my detest that, but he also put succinctly how NOT to debate in favor of evolution.

Anyway, totally unrelated to the subject of this thread, but you mentioned that you love Sci-Fi and I am always a sucker for good recommendations. Any names and "must reads"?

My personal favorites of late alongside OSC are Vernor Vinge (everything), Dan Simmons (Hyperion Cantos), Neal Stephenson (Diamond Age and Snow Crush, did not read his "historical" 1000+ pages books)

[CobaltBlue]

Stephenson's "historical 1000+ pages books" are way cool, IMO. Couldn't wait to read them, and am now re-reading them. Very interesting on the history of money and the stock market.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Well, I guess THIS sure ends the arguing!!!!"

Of course not, but it DOES show that the world's biggest bunch of Christians doesn't have a problem with REAL SCIENCE.

[narby]

It's "separaton of church and state" that keeps religion out of public schools.

And thank God we have the doctrine of separation (whether genuinely Constitutional or not). Else you *know* that the religion of choice of many educrats would be Buddhism or Islam, anything but Christianity, if religion was allowed to be endorsed in public schools.

After Mark Steyn's recent article on demography, where he makes a compelling case that western democracies will be overrun by Islamic masses in a few short decades, it's even more important that we promote a secular public life, and leave religion to strictly private affairs. Otherwise it's pretty obvious that our great-great-grandchildren (if they're ever actually born) will live in an Islamic world.

[Tolik]

Thanks. I picked one, looked at the size, and put it down. I guess, I might reconsider...

[mlc9852]

Narby, surely by now you realize I know that and purposely chose the term. I equate it to "fundies" and other such terms. Lighten up and enjoy a few laughs on the subject.

[Coyoteman]

"Darwinism" is a misnomer. Leads to muddled thinking.

"Darwinism", as generally used on these threads, is a pejorative. Stems from muddled thinking.

[CobaltBlue]

Else you *know* that the religion of choice of many educrats would be Buddhism or Islam, anything but Christianity, if religion was allowed to be endorsed in public schools.

Unfortunately, I already know the "answer" to that. To wit: "the religion which should be taught in public schools is Christianity because the nation is majority Christian and was founded by Christians to be a Christian nation."

If you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

[Elsie]

NOW you've done it!

I would MUCH rather be out among these rocks than jawwing with you guys, but that'll have to wait 'til later in the year.

GOD I love this country!

[Condorman]

Greg Bear (Eon, Queen of Angels) comes to mind. If you're looking for something off the beaten path, try Neil Gaiman (American Gods, Good Omens-with Terry Prattchet).

The Mars series by Kim Stanley Robinson is a daunting task, but has a lot to recommend it.

[Elsie]

Oh! Travel out to Moab and Arches for just LOVELY views of all this kinda stuff!

Get in some good, old fashioned BLM camping before it's all sanitized oh so nicely for the timid folk.

[Condorman]

The one I posted is in the condor sanctuary. According to the site, it's off-limits.

[steve-b]

Intelligent Design is just Creation Science in a new suit

Sorry, Orson, your friends got busted on this issue in the Dover case... and your ignornace of that obvious fact renders your entire argument highly suspect (at best).

[Elsie]

Here in 7 strawman points, the author builds a bogus case that he can knock down.

Maybe he's not been informed that the only GOOD Strawman is an E-strawman!

[steve-b]

The irony is that there are plenty of Darwinists who are perfectly good writers, capable of explaining the science to us well enough to show us the flaws in the Designists' arguments. The fact that they refuse even to try to explain is, again, a confession that they don't have an answer.

There are plenty of Republicans who are perfectly good writers, capable of explaining the science to us well enough to show us the flaws in the 9/11 Conspiracy Moonbats' arguments.

By Card's argument, the fact that none of them has deigned to do so proves that the 9/11 Conspiracy Moonbats are right (rather than the truth, which is that sensible people don't waste their time debating moonbats).

[Elsie]

Of course not, but it DOES show that a teacher, among the leaders of the world's biggest bunch of Christians doesn't have a problem with REAL evolutionary biased SCIENCE.

[Dimensio]

God isn't a liar; man is.

Well you certainly are. Your own posting history shows as much.

[narby]

I equate it to "fundies" and other such terms. Lighten up and enjoy a few laughs on the subject.

So you're endorsing the use of the pejorative word "fundie"? Ok.

I still don't think I'll use it much though. And I doubt I'll lighten up either. I think this is a serious debate because attempting to insert a particular flavor of Christian fundamentalism into conservative politics would kill it. Just the same as the hard core lefty politics are now killing the Democratic party's ability to get elected.

And if conservatives no longer get elected, then even the "fundies" can write off ever getting things they want like decent judges, abortion ended, school choice and others. So it's in the "fundies" best interests to stay away from actual religious dogma (which is what creationism is) and stick with issues that can be argued from a strictly secular viewpoint such as the above.

[Elsie]

He CAN'T 'lighten up'.

He has no Savior.