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To: pabianice
Sad but inevitable. We are now training the last group of combat aircraft crews.

I doubt it, actually. The counterstrategy to an all-UAV force is to disrupt the comm links. Disrupt those, and you'd have air superiority. A manned combat air cabability is far less susceptible to that.

44 posted on 01/17/2006 7:29:29 AM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb

"I doubt it, actually. The counterstrategy to an all-UAV force is to disrupt the comm links. Disrupt those, and you'd have air superiority. A manned combat air cabability is far less susceptible to that."

There are a few issues with this. There are actually two types of control, telepresence and autonomous. When telepresence fails, the vehicles go into autonomous mode. At a minimum, autonomous mode would be "return to base". In practice, for bombers, most missions could be fully autonomous, just as cruise missiles are now. The only time a lost link would result in auto return to base is if the mission is flagged as "must be recallable".

Air to air is a bit more complicated, but quite solvable. The software would need to be able to understand high-level tasks like CAP, SEAD, interdiction and so on. The other hurdle is IDing other aircraft, which is readily solvable through image processing, radar signature processing, black boxes and so on. A UAV could easily be programmed to "challenge" not-obviously-military aircraft, and only fire if it didn't turn away in a certain amount of time. If a link is available, telepresence could "coach" the UAV. Straight air-to-air combat is the easy part, given good sensors and radar. The plane could "learn" to be a top ace in seconds, the cockpit/oxygen/canopy/displays/ejection seat (and lots of other stuff) go away, meaning longer range and/or more payload. As others have pointed out, UAVs can out maneuver manned aircraft by a wide margin.

I expect the way it'll be used operationally is with manned aircraft in the vicinity to be "commanders". Comms might be accomplished securely with lasers, for instance.

In summary, the big wins are:

Autonomous fighters will eventually win the vast majority of engagements against manned aircraft.

Autonomous aircraft will outperform manned aircraft.

There are no training delays with autonomous aircraft.

Training costs are (much) lower with autonomous aircraft.

A shot down autonomous aircraft doesn't leave a grieving family behind, give intelligence to the enemy, or add to the "media body count".


56 posted on 01/17/2006 7:58:20 AM PST by PreciousLiberty
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To: r9etb

Actually, I see a the uav's as a first strike force with the f22s to come and bat cleanup. Imgaine the enemy having to deal with BOTH threats.


91 posted on 01/17/2006 8:32:49 AM PST by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: r9etb
The counterstrategy to an all-UAV force is to disrupt the comm links. Disrupt those, and you'd have air superiority.

"Col John Boyd, USAF (Ret), coined the term and developed the concept of the "OODA Loop" (Observation, Orientation, Decision, Action)". ...

This is the battle field that the nerds will find themselves in. The OODA loop.

If they can match or exceed piloted fighters in this arena the concept will have been proven.

You're right, the enemy will try to disrupt our data links and we will employ countermeasures to prevent it. As happens to all data/comm links in combat.

104 posted on 01/17/2006 9:01:17 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("fake but accurate": NY Times)
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