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To: Sandy
This really does not add up at all.

According to you, terrorists do not meet the definition of a "foreign power" set forth in section 1801(a)(1-3).

Are you then saying that it is a violation of FISA to conduct warantless electronic surveillance against terrorists?

And why do you say that an "agent of a foreign power" is not considered to be in association with a foreign power? If an agent of a foreign power is considered to be in association with a foreign power, then they would be excluded from the definition of a United States person according to section 1801, subsection (i).
37 posted on 01/14/2006 10:34:51 PM PST by joseph20
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To: joseph20
And why do you say that an "agent of a foreign power" is not considered to be in association with a foreign power?

I don't think I said that. I think maybe you're reading the phrase "an association which is a foreign power" to mean something other than what it actually says. It means the association itself is the foreign power. The phrase doesn't say "IN association with a foreign power". It says "AN association which IS a foreign power".

Look at the definition of association:

1. The act of associating or the state of being associated.
2. An organized body of people who have an interest, activity, or purpose in common; a society.
I think you're reading the word "association" as though it has meaning #1, when meaning #2 is the proper one.
41 posted on 01/14/2006 11:29:12 PM PST by Sandy
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To: joseph20
According to you, terrorists do not meet the definition of a "foreign power" set forth in section 1801(a)(1-3).

I don't think I said that, either. The six meanings of foreign power defined in 1801(a) aren't all mutually exclusive. For example, "a foreign government or any component thereof" could also be a "a group engaged in international terrorism".

Are you then saying that it is a violation of FISA to conduct warantless electronic surveillance against terrorists?

No. I'm saying that if a terrorist isn't a foreign power as defined in 1801(a)(1-3), then section 1802(a) wouldn't be applicable. 1804 would be the applicable section.

My original and main point, however, was to correct your assertion that a U.S. person is not a U.S. person if he's an agent of a foreign power.

43 posted on 01/14/2006 11:53:20 PM PST by Sandy
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