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90 years later, Peru battles Yale over Incan artifacts
The Christian Science Monitor ^ | 1/10/06 | Danna Harman

Posted on 01/10/2006 4:59:41 AM PST by Republicanprofessor

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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Your analogy between looters and archeologists reflects the level of thought in your tag line, "outside a good dog, a book is your best friend. inside a dog it's too dark to read".

Have you thought about selling your pit bull to the Golden Dragon Chinese restaurant and training your next dog differently than your present one?

That way, you won't have to worry about winding up inside your dog. And then you also won't have to try to remember a small LED to read by.

;-)


41 posted on 01/10/2006 9:44:09 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: LexBaird

Sometimes looting is justified simply because its better than destruction but most of the time its just an exercise of power.


42 posted on 01/10/2006 9:47:10 AM PST by Varda
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To: Varda

"As an aside, the British Museums treatment of its Egyptian artifacts is abominable. Priceless artifacts are left out for countless museum goers to rub their grubby fingers over them. I say send them back."

Remember the care given to a truely irreplacable statue by the ultimate in Turd World curators, the Taliban?

Huh?

To equate the British Museum with most any Turd World facility is hoefully a typo on your part. If not, you should consider having your meds adjusted at once.

"Grubby" fingers are a far cry from the Taliban's C-4 preservation ideology and methodology.


43 posted on 01/10/2006 9:51:51 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: Recon Dad
Displaying artifacts in London or Hartford or displaying in Giza or Peru I believe the latter is the proper location venue.

I don't care where they're displayed, or even if.
If you can find narratives of the Elgin Marbles, for instance, written before PC revisionism became endemic, you will find, in plain language, that they were purchased in a quarry (!) where they were scheduled to be ground for the lime and plaster.
In the context of the time, they were sold by the then owners the Turks *.
Judging events of 200 years ago by comtemporary Political Correctness is the triumph of ignorance, and a waste of time.

* In 1801 Elgin obtained a firman , or authority, from the Sultan which gave him permission to take away any sculptures or inscriptions which did not interfere with the works or walls of the citadel.

44 posted on 01/10/2006 9:57:29 AM PST by Publius6961 (The IQ of California voters is about 420........... .............cumulatively)
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To: Recon Dad

"The Egyptians, Greeks and Peruvians are capable of acting as curator as well as we are."

"Capable", conceivable but not demonstrated.

And what of the sheer national instabilities in those places? At any time, in any Islamic nation, some whacko may destroy any statue or any artifact with an image on it.

Peru has always been a land of theft where the strongest took what they wanted. Far more artifacts have been "looted" by locals needing a bit of money, and far more sites ruined by said locals, than by archeologists from the First World.

Might I ask why you seem to insist that backward places are equally safe repositories as major Western facilities?


45 posted on 01/10/2006 10:00:51 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: Publius6961

You bagged 'em right between the eyes.

But, then again, perhaps the cranium was uninhabited at the time?

Out fellow FReeper must have sent his brain out for coffee.

;-)


46 posted on 01/10/2006 10:03:55 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: Publius6961
It takes a lot of arrogance to assume the mantel of protector of all antiquities when a lot of the destruction of artifacts probably came at the hands of the "protectors" in the first place.
I've been to the museum in Cairo and other great museums around the world and I have no problem entrusting the safe care of their relics to their care.

We are not going to agree on this issue so let's agree to disagree. Thanks.
47 posted on 01/10/2006 10:41:27 AM PST by Recon Dad (Force Recon Dad)
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To: Republicanprofessor

Go Incas! Boola Boola, give them the Moola!


48 posted on 01/10/2006 10:42:43 AM PST by x
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To: Publius6961

Don't give the Peruvians jack. They didn't invest in sweat toil effort and smarts to recover these treasures. Yale should keep them where they'll be safe and exhibited. I reject this anti-colonialism narrative. The Spanish controllers of Peru should have done the hard work but they didn't, Yale did


49 posted on 01/10/2006 10:47:31 AM PST by dennisw ("What one man can do another can do" - The Edge)
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To: GladesGuru
Your "Turd World" reference now that's funny. You must have been the one that named "Target"! I am definitely using that one, thanks.
50 posted on 01/10/2006 10:55:13 AM PST by Recon Dad (Force Recon Dad)
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To: GladesGuru

My reasoning is that those are Inca treasures and part of the heritage of the Peruvian descendants of those Incas. I don't believe wanting treasures that belonged to your ancestors is whining. I don't know the circumstances under which these treasures were given away or sold, but given the history of most of latin america there was probably a lot of corruption involved and I suspect whoever bought them for Yale was aware of it. I don't doubt that legally they belong to Yale, but I think Yale would be well served by giving them back. Further, would no the treasures have a lot more value in a museum at Machu Pichu where they could be viewed in the context of the ruins?


51 posted on 01/10/2006 11:57:12 AM PST by Casloy
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To: Casloy

Given the history of South America, how long would those artifacts remain on display? We are talking about a culture steeped in corruption, after all.

As far as ". I don't doubt that legally they belong to Yale, but I think Yale would be well served by giving them back." I can only to Liberals would there be any "social justice value" in such a give away.

Giving artifacts to the non-Western is like giving Kennowick Man back to the American Indians. Except that the Indians are of a gene pool that arrived only some 6,000 years ago, whereas Kennowick Man was almost 10,000 years old.

Come to think of it, the Goron tried to force giving Kennowick Man back and the scientific world sued and won.

Let 'em find their own artifacts. Meanwhile, let 'em whine to the Goron.


52 posted on 01/10/2006 2:09:35 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: GladesGuru; Republicanprofessor
It is true that they did do good stone masonry, but they were also a totalitarian society of unimaginable brutality and cruelty.

Agreed.

Yale is awful, but isn't "a totalitarian society of unimaginable brutality and cruelty" going a bit too far ...

Not so sure, about the "good stonemasonry" either. Could Yale really have built this themselves? If it's not a natural rock formation, perhaps it dates from an earlier culture.

53 posted on 01/10/2006 5:23:58 PM PST by x
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To: GladesGuru

My tag line quote from Mark Twain is a play on words. My post about looting archeologists was spoken forthrightly. :-)

Archeologists show up, document and then steal everything they can, publish papers for personal career advancements and as fodder for selling books and for prestige. They often, but not always, turn over their artifacts to private or public collections.

Looters show up and steal and then sell to private or public collectors.

Other than the public information that is made available, there is little difference between looters and archeologists other than the letters after their names. The artifacts are preserved and end up in collections - some private and some public. Even private collections are willed to public institutions quite frequently.

Oh, there is one more difference that comes to mind. Looters know what their motives are.

BTW, my dog is a bulldog...

ampu


54 posted on 01/10/2006 5:29:32 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (outside a good dog, a book is your best friend. inside a dog it's too dark to read)
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To: x

"Yale is awful, but isn't "a totalitarian society of unimaginable brutality and cruelty" going a bit too far ... "

Depends on whether you are a Princeton or Harvard man.

;-)


55 posted on 01/10/2006 6:17:08 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principle)
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