I mentioned the historical facts of your country’s war record. If you consider that “insulting”, that is strictly your problem and your country’s problem.
The purpose of writing on a public forum is not to exchange private opinions or to seek blessings from God offered by posters, that is what private e-mail and prayer is for. The purpose of public forums is so that others may learn from the exchanges.
Don´t you think that your referrence to the Nazi era does not belong here? It´s silly, and it shows that you´re trying to divert from your morally and legally wrong steps taken in this "war on terrorism".
Not at all. The Nazi era is, in fact, the very reason that some Germans can now sanctimoniously criticize the U.S. about the dirty and always imperfect business of war.
At the end of your last post, you listed the Korean War and the Vietnam War and claimed that American self-interest was involved because America “couldn’t stay out” of those wars lest the Communists conquer those two countries. That, Michael, demonstrates the mindset that Germans and Europeans have developed in regards to America after World War II: America is seen as the man that HAS to go out and do the heavy work because he CAN’T allow children under his care to come to harm.
In the meantime, Germany became a self-proclaimed child in regards to war.
If South Korea needed defending, everybody from the Greeks to the Turks helped America and the U.N. defend South Korea………… But not Germany.
If a large percentage Europe's oil supplies was going to be militarily dominated by Saddam Hussein as a result of his conquest of Kuwait and his capability of invading Saudi Arabia next and something needed to be done militarily, that is what America and Britain were there for.........But not Germany.
When genocide was occurring in the 1990's in the former Yugoslavia right on Germany's doorstep, it was left for the Americans and the British to do the actual combat that stopped the slaughter.
"Sorry. We don't dirty our pristine German hands with the unpleasant business of war outside our borders anymore."
Why?
Precisely because of the Nazi era.
Long after the Nazi era was over, Germany used the Nazi era as an excuse to leave the dirty business of war outside its own borders to other nations, especially America. “You can’t expect us Germans to go to war outside our borders, no matter how noble the cause, because look what happened the last time we fought a war outside our borders!”
Whenever wars have needed to be fought after 1945, Germany has embraced the memory of the Nazi area as tightly as a child embracing his mother.
My family came to America in 1960 and, since then, my immediate family has seen more combat than all of the former West Germany put together ever did throughout its entire existence.
Even now that Germany has changed that policy, it keeps its troops in Afghanistan restricted to the city of Kabul lest, God forbid, they may have to actually dirty their pure hands in combat.
The child that never gets behind the wheel of a car has a spotless traffic record. The physician that never sees a patient never makes a medical mistake or loses a patient. The pilot who never flies, never crashes.
Likewise, the country that refuse to ever go to war, even in the defense of others, has a perfect war conduct record and, after three generations, loses all touch with the realities of war.
I have explained why your treatment of prisoners is legally wrong. The process of determining the status by the CSRT was too slow, 38 detainees were innocent.
There is one example of losing touch with reality. As I have documented, Military Tribunals were brought to a legal halt by left-wing attorneys winning lower Court decision in U.S. civilian courts. Now, the case is working its way up the U.S. legal system to the U.S. Supreme Court.
The Geneva Convention mandates that tribunals be military tribunals. By this legal logic, all the left-wing attorneys have to do is win a lower Court decision to stop the Military Tribunals and, before the case can even work its way to the Supreme Court, the Europeans are demanding that the confinement is illegal. In effect, the logic claims that the holding unprivileged combatants is legally impossible.
POW or those who are treated like that must not be tortured. When a prisoner is not a POW, he must have the rights by GCIV. The Geneva Conventions don´t know a status-free prisoner. Either you´re a POW (GCIII), or a civilian with the right of GCIV.
The GCIV requires that the prisoners be "treated with humanity". That is a rather subjective term and it seems that it takes very little for modern-day Europeans to scream “Torture!”. Thus, the terrorist that beat a U.S. Navy sailor to death is now being released after a mere 20 years in a European prison.
That, Michael, demonstrates the mindset that Germans and Europeans have developed in regards to America after World War II: America is seen as the man that HAS to go out and do the heavy work because he CAN’T allow children under his care to come to harm.
In the meantime, Germany became a self-proclaimed child in regards to war.
By your own standards America HAS to go out. We´re judging you by your own ideals.
It is mostly right to call Germany a child. But it´s not that self-proclaimed. For decades our neighbours wanted us to have reduced military capabilities. We´re still not allowed to have ABC-weapons, carriers, strategic bombers or long-range-missiles. But I don´t neglect that it´s also home-made.
As for our committment in Afghanistan, we´re in Kabul, Falsabad and now in another region (forgot the name). Our elite troops also fought side by side with yours in 2001 and 2002 against the Taliban (on the hunt for those who are now in Gitmo). One of our soldiers lost his leg, but gladly nobody died. Of the regular ISAF-troops, 18 have died so far. It´s not that we ignore the WOT.
The Nazi era still doesn´t belong here. This is about Gitmo, about how to deal with these prisoners. We (as Germans) are no more or less entitled to criticize you as France, Britain, Italy or Denmark is.
Our values were (or still are), that guilt must be proven (not innocence) and that people need to (soon) be convicted for being imprisoned. That´s not the case with most of the inmates in Gitmo. If they´re POW (and there are several from Iraq and Afghanistan who have this status according to US sources), they shall be released as soon as the armed conflict in their homeland is over (e.g. Iraq is stable and the Taliban in Afghanistan are defeated). That may take some time but is in accordance with the Geneva Conventions. If they´re not POW, they´re "civilians" (= criminals, terrorists, whatever you may call them). They shall be entitled to the rights of the Fourth Geneva Convention and be treated according to the laws. Therefore, those people should face a trial. If the reason, why you refuse to try them, is a lack of trust in your judges - you should fix this problem. The Geneva Conventions don´t know the term "illegal combatant".
I agree that the collection of informations through interrogations of Gitmo-inmates have contributed to our security here, too. I also do not question the treatment of the prisoners, incl. water boarding. Not long ago, I was opposed to these forms of treatment, but I learned how the water boarding works. It´s ok considering the importance of the informations these people may have.
The difference is, that we Euros view the WOT more as a form or law enforcement, and you view it more as a war. Both ain´t right, it´s a completely new thing.