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To: bigsigh
Do you have a source for the four Gosples being eyewitness accounts?

Well, there's plenty of internal evidence in the Gospels to that effect . . . e.g. John 19:35.

But C.S. Lewis has pointed out an interesting proof that does not depend upon the good faith (or cunning) of the authors of the Gospels. He points out that they are written in a colloquial, somewhat rough, reportorial style, and that they contain a lot of minutiae of the sort that you acquire by observation (e.g. Jesus "doodling" in the sand in John 8:6).

If somebody had set out to start a new religion by making it up out of whole cloth, they would have followed the more high-flown and rhetorical models of the classical authors, to give the account more credence (from their society's point of view.) In other words, if the Gospels are fiction and not factual reporting, they anticipated the style of the naturalistic 20th century novel by about 2000 years.

83 posted on 01/02/2006 6:08:42 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

I didn't say the Gospels were fiction. I asked about a source that they were written by eyewitnesses. I'm a l;azy researcher, but I recall my readings that they were written at the end of the first century and in the second. I welcome evidence to the contrary.


90 posted on 01/02/2006 6:14:03 PM PST by bigsigh
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To: AnAmericanMother

PS: I have read several authors of fiction who wrote in the style as you described, as if they were there or eyewitness.


91 posted on 01/02/2006 6:15:03 PM PST by bigsigh
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To: AnAmericanMother
If somebody had set out to start a new religion by making it up out of whole cloth, they would have followed the more high-flown and rhetorical models of the classical authors, to give the account more credence.

It would indeed be a GREAT AUTHOR to have created the Gospel life of Jesus as a fiction, and a MIRACLE that it would turn into such a "best-seller".

It is the deniers who are not dealing scientifically, because they are not interested in the truth, but rather to torment the believers. The deniers here are very similar to the holocaust-deniers, who are denying something much closer to our time when survivors are still around.
100 posted on 01/02/2006 6:44:39 PM PST by kenavi ("Remember, your fathers sacrificed themselves without need of a messianic complex." Ariel Sharon)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Actually, only Mark and John are written in the "rough" Greek style. Luke is very stylistic, and a bear to translate (probably Luke and Acts are the hardest, except for Hebrews). Mark and John are full of bad grammar, poor syntax, and exactly what you would expect from Jews who spoke a little Greek. That is why first year (Koine) Gk students start with Mark or John. They are EASY.

However,(and this is REALLY cool!) When you go to the gospel of Luke, it bears the marks of a well educated, proper speaking person who was well versed in Greek....., in the first chapter (what you would expect from a physician... educated, right?). The second chapter lapses back into what I call "pidgin" Greek, and reads more like John, or Mark. Then, after the events of the nativity, the styliltic, classically influenced Greek picks up (I took a year of classical Greek in undergrad, and about 4 years more Koine Gk. in grad school). My own theory is that Luke, who spoke very good greek, was "transcribing" word for word the events of the nativity from someone. Who better to give the details, and who better to know some of the more intimate details of Mary's heart revealed there, than Mary herself? She would have been old by this time, but still just a Hebrew peasant, whose Greek would have been stammering and poor. Look at the Christmas story in Luke, look at the personal details that only would have been know my Mary, and then visualize someone "switching on" a foreign voice with bad grammar and uneducated style being quoted directly. I think we got Mary's direct story That is my theory of the lapse into "bad" Greek for Luke 2, anyway. It is a cool theory, even if unprovable.

144 posted on 01/03/2006 11:57:00 AM PST by chronic_loser ((Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.))
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