Teens sue Riverside evangelical school over lesbian suspicions

AP ^ | 12/29/5

[SmithL]

Riverside -- Two 16-year-old girls who were expelled from a private Lutheran high school because they were suspected of being lesbians have sued the school for invasion of privacy and discrimination.

The lawsuit, filed last week in Riverside County Superior Court, seeks the girls' re-enrollment at the tiny California Lutheran High School, unspecified damages and an injunction barring the school from excluding gays and lesbians.

The suit could be a test case in the state on whether religious schools can deny enrollment to gays and lesbians, said Richard Ackerman, a lawyer who is president of Temecula's Pro-Family Center, which focuses on lawsuits dealing with conservative Christian values.

"There's no established law on this issue," said Ackerman, who's not involved in the current litigation. "It's very likely this will be a precedent-setting case."

Kirk D. Hanson, co-counsel for the girls, said the expulsion traumatized and humiliated them.

"Their entire support network was pulled out from under them because of suspicions about their sexual orientation," said Hanson, who declined to say if his clients were lesbians.

[Campion]

Hypocrisy is the worst sin of all in my opinion.

An opinion with which many of us disagree, and which is incoherent in view of your contention that only the "morally pure" may judge. (How "morally pure are you? How do we know that you aren't a hypocrite?) And why is your opinion worthy of greater respect than anyone else's?

Unless they're expelling all the students who are having sex, which I very much doubt they are, the principal has no right to expel the girls.

Got an experiment for you. Next time you're stopped for speeding, explain to the nice patrolman that lots of other cars were speeding too at the same time all over the USA, and he doesn't really have the right to ticket you for speeding if he's not going to ticket them.

While he's laughing at you, you can think about how ridiculous your contention is.

[Campion]

I very much doubt that most people spewing such hostile rhetoric on this thread would ever permit their children to hang out with an openly gay child, and that fact makes me very sad.

Why? I wouldn't permit my child to "hang out" with a child I knew to be fornicating, and I have already had to prohibit my son from visiting a friend's house when I found out that the friend looked at pornography on the Internet.

I love my children enough to want them to have good role models in their life, not bad ones. What a horrible concept.

[Accygirl]

My best guy friend in school was a much better Catholic than I was and would never think of having sex outside a committed relationship. The only thing about him that you'd consider a sin is that he sometimes went on a date to the movies with another guy. However, you'd still consider him to be an evil, sinful person.

[Accygirl]

We should all work on our own sins instead of pointing out other people's failings. The principal, who is willing to taunt and humiliate his students, is guilty of hypocrisy, intolerance, and inability to demonstrate Christian compassion and kindness. Those transgressions are much more serious than any the girls may have committed because they were committed by an adult role model who should know better. Perhaps, instead of railing against the evils of lesbianism, he should learn to be a better educator.

As for your other contention, I went to a private school, and I know how these places operate. There's no way in hell that the hotshot football player would EVER get expelled under such flimsy evidence. It seems to me that getting rid of the EVIL lesbians blinded the principal to things like A. treating the girls with kindness and compassion, B. having a fair hearing/ appeals process and presenting much more substantial evidence against them, and C. doling out fair punishments.

[fwdude]

You obviously went to a bad Catholic school; I'm not denying that. The incidents you mentioned in your experience, if true, are horrendous, unchristian, and should be condemned. But you are making a lot of assumptions in this case, based solely on biased accounts by the plaintiffs, who obviously have an agenda to promote. You are also making up facts in that you contend the girls were publicly humiliated when the only involved people seem to be the girls, the school administration, and the girls' parents. You also say that the principal is picking on the girls for no reason. You claim to have knowledge about the culture of the school when you obviouly don't. Very few facts are known at this point, so look at what we do have.

Notice the demands in the lawsuit: unspecified damages (money), RE-ENROLLMENT AT THE SCHOOL, and an injunction barring the school from excluding gays and lesbians. Considering the second, don't you think it strange that the girls would want to remain in a supposedly hostile environment? But the last seems to expose the real objective, to be lesbians in an organization where such behavior and worldview is condemned with the purpose to either destroy the organization from within or to set a precedent in which no private religious organization can any longer have any say in establishing its own moral values.

[Politicalmom]

They were french kissing each other at a sleepover party attended by other girls from the school.

[ccwoman]

These are children and I state again that the principal shouldn't have handled the situation alone. All photos are open to interpretation. The girls at our local christian school had pics from their slumber party that weren't very "pretty". no one was expelled. The girl were counseled about staying away from the "appearance of evil" and the local girls were counseled by female teacherS (plural).

I find it sad that the church in any form cannot find it in their heart to love the "sinner" but hate the sin. These are children who most likely were just being silly girls and are now swept up in all this craziness and are regretting that it ever got this big.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Just being silly girls? So they go straight to the press --- and to lawyers to slam the principal with a lawsuit which could shut down the school, and/or require all Christian schools to relinquish their disciplinary codes and accept student lesbianism?

I think you are being politically unrealistic about who has the whip hand in this scenario.

[flaglady47]

"I very much doubt that most people spewing such hostile rhetoric on this thread would ever permit their children to hang out with an openly gay child, and that fact makes me very sad."

At best you are a libertarian, with liberal tendencies. And, once again, your youth shows through when you use the words "hang out". I think you need more life experience to realize the negative aspects of gay life, rather than thinking of gays as victims.

You aren't the only one who has (or had) gay friends. A professor and friend of mine over time I discovered was gay. Although he covered it up fairly well (he is now about 64) it became more apparent when we, as friends, socialized. He got aids. No one knew what had happened to him, as he disappeared out of sight for a while. Even then, he was in denial, until he came to terms with it, and at that point he got religion. He and his boyfriend became followers of Beni Hin (sp?), a faith healer, and also began attending charismatic Catholic services (yes they do exist), all in hopes of bargaining with God for having lived the lifestyles they partook of. As an aside, when young, he thought about entering the priesthood (as he was Catholic). Funny how gays navigate to an all male priesthood. Not funny to the Catholic church, though, as they have suffered heavily and expensively from the gay Catholic priests in their midst in the USA.

My friend and his boyfriend liked to travel to Turkey and Greece, because young boys were easily available for sexual trysts. They were alcoholics, as so many gays are, and used marijuana frequently. Though I admired greatly my friend (he is a history professor) for his intellect, I don't admire at all his past lifestyle, and frankly, it turns my stomach to the point that I have not maintained contact with him. As both he and his boyfriend have aids, I just don't want to be around them anymore.

This lifestyle behavior is the underbelly that you don't see of the gay lifestyle. Sexual diseases, alcoholism, drugs, and psychological problems. You blame the school for you friend's suicide, which is an emotion based reaction on your part, as the school didn't hold a gun to your friend's head; she chose to do herself in as she, which is so typical of gays, was psychologically messed up. You obviously have issues with the Catholic church, which is logical, as you are so pro-gay and the church is just the opposite.

You also seem to have authority issues to this day, based on your comment "didn't have to follow the same rules that the rest of us did" when referring to your experience in attending a religious school. Bottom line, I think it is you that has the 'tude' problem, and you are still very young and therefore have a propensity to swallow the "victimhood" mentality. What is poisonous here, is your attitude towards your own religion. Perhaps you should try hashing this out with a priest, and see if there is anything retrievable here as far as your faith. I think you need some outside help, as it's not healthy to go through life with a victimhood point of view. Bottom line, you've got issues that need attending to.

[Accygirl]

A. The girls must have serious and credible allegations if a lawyer was willing to take their case. I believe that one of the following probably happened either the principal overstepped his bounds and basically harassed the two girls, there was no substantial evidence presented/ hearing help, or the punishment would not have been given or as harsh if the girls were circulating risque pictures of them with their boyfriends. Any of those situations seem plausible to me.

B. There's been enough incidents over the past two years concerning private schools that I tend to side with the students in these cases. And it's not just for "so-called" liberal causes; there was the pro-life girl who got expelled from her Catholic school for no reason in the fall.

C. I think that religious institutions should in general stay away from teaching children the three Rs and instead focus on teaching all their parishioners how to live moral lives.

[Accygirl]

At best you are a libertarian, with liberal tendencies. I guess all those paper cuts I got stuffing envelopes for Dubya in '04 mean nothing. As both he and his boyfriend have aids, I just don't want to be around them anymore. There are many heterosexual people engage in risque behavior and contract sexual diseases as well. When I was in college, there were, unfortunately, some girls who made a point of going to bars, getting drunk, and engaging in casual sex with random guys. You blame the school for you friend's suicide, which is an emotion based reaction on your part, as the school didn't hold a gun to your friend's head; she chose to do herself in as she, which is so typical of gays, was psychologically messed up. I discussed two friends... My gay friend, while having to deal with all sorts of taunts and jeers from his good Catholic classmates, never committed suicide. Another one of our acquaintances tried to commit suicide by OD'ing on pills after some of the varsity basketball players started nasty rumors about her being gay. The school's culture and atmosphere clearly contributed to her suicide attempt, and her parents contemplated suing the school after it, but didn't because they were more concerned with getting their daughter better. You also seem to have authority issues to this day, based on your comment "didn't have to follow the same rules that the rest of us did" when referring to your experience in attending a religious school. Well, of course, I must have an authority problem, because I should have kissed the fannies of all the rich, popular kids. After all, they deserved to be able to come back from lunch late, cut classes, and spread nasty rumors because their daddies financed the new computer lab, and those new Dells are SO much more important than creating a non-hostile, equitable environment for all students. What is poisonous here, is your attitude towards your own religion. Perhaps you should try hashing this out with a priest, and see if there is anything retrievable here as far as your faith. I think you need some outside help, as it's not healthy to go through life with a victimhood point of view. Bottom line, you've got issues that need attending to. Frankly, I think that I have a right to be ticked by what happened to my friends in HS, and I'll continue to remember it until I'm strong enough to look the perpetrators and their enablers in the eye and tell them EXACTLY how I feel. As for Christianity, I have nothing against it; however, I do have issues with how it is practiced within the U.S. Jesus must be in Heaven weeping because of the amount of hypocrisy found in U.S. Christianity, especially Catholicism.

[fwdude]

A. Since when have serious and credible allegations ever been a prerequisite to filing a lawsuit or finding a lawyer willing to represent them? An old lady successfully sued McDonalds when she stupidly spilled coffee on her lap and complained that McD's made it too hot, for Pete sakes!!!

B. Assuming facts apply in this case from past or present experiences you had at other schools defies logic. Opinion, ok.

C. You are being sarcastic, right?

[flaglady47]

"Well, of course, I must have an authority problem, because I should have kissed the fannies of all the rich, popular kids.... and those new Dells are SO much more important than creating a non-hostile, equitable environment for all students."

There goes that hostility attitude again. Bad for you. Sounds like there is a great big chip sitting on your shoulder. And a real grudge against anyone who has more than you do in life. A class envy thing. I still think you are a Dem. That's how Dems are, pushing class warfare and being envious of anyone rich.

"and I'll continue to remember it until I'm strong enough to look the perpetrators and their enablers in the eye and tell them EXACTLY how I feel."

And you know how to hold a grudge too.

"heterosexual people engage in risque behavior and contract sexual diseases as well."

Generally not Aids, though. And Aids is deadly. And besides, being gay is a form of sexual deviancy. I cannot believe you think it natural for a man whose parts are made for interaction with a woman, who decides to engage in sex with another man. Same goes for women. Nature did not make humans in such a manner as to engage in same sex relationships. Besides which, you wouldn't be around if your "parents" were gay, now would you.

"Another one of our acquaintances tried to commit suicide by OD'ing on pills after some of the varsity basketball players started nasty rumors about her being gay. The school's culture and atmosphere clearly contributed to her suicide attempt, and her parents contemplated suing the school after it, but didn't because they were more concerned with getting their daughter better"

In one of your earlier posts, you said your friend WAS gay, so guess the rumors were right. Your friend was messed up long before the poor school had the misfortune to have her as a student. And I'll bet her parents knew it. If she was gay, she should have told her parents and/or request they not send her to a religious school. The Catholic school just had the misfortune of getting her as a student. Sounds like that might apply to you too, with your axes to grind.

"because of the amount of hypocrisy found in U.S. Christianity, especially Catholicism."

You really are on the wrong website, you know. I now think you are a form of troll, even though you probably don't realize it. Much better suited for the DU website. This is my last comment to you, as further "discussion" is pointless. You have a certain childishness that is bothersome, and you really need to grow up. But I'm sure you'll continue making comments in the same vein, on other threads as well. I'll try to avoid any further interaction. Good luck in life; you're going to need it.

[Accygirl]

"There goes that hostility attitude again. Bad for you. Sounds like there is a great big chip sitting on your shoulder. And a real grudge against anyone who has more than you do in life. A class envy thing. I still think you are a Dem. That's how Dems are, pushing class warfare and being envious of anyone rich."

So it's okay in your book that the popular kids from my school BROUGHT beer to football games and the administration turned the other way. That they got arrested by the cops for drug possession, but didn't get expelled because Daddy promised to pay for the gym to be repainted. That they got to take two hour lunches or smoke in the parking lot without getting suspended??? Frankly, the only way someone would actually believe that is if they were one of the overprivileged brats at my school.

As for which Republican party you belong to, it surely isn't the same one that I do. While I respect people who have gotten where they are using their own talents, I certainly don't bow down to them and kiss their feet, and if their children go to my school, they better have to play by the EXACT same rules that I do. The only people who think otherwise are Oprah Winfrey, Barbara Streisand, and all the other limousine liberals out in Hollywood.

"And you know how to hold a grudge too."
One of my biggest regrets in life is that I didn't tell those brats off in high school. Instead, I just let them sit there and laugh about how it's TOO BAD my best guy friend didn't decide to OD on pills as well, but unfortunately I wasn't assertive enough.

And of course, since they got away with it, they still aren't repentant. I had the unfortunate experience of bumping into one of them recently, and they asked me if I was "still friends with those (derogatory word to describe gay people.)"

"In one of your earlier posts, you said your friend WAS gay, so guess the rumors were right."

Perhaps before you attack me, you should actually read my posts. There were two friends... one who was openly gay, one who was just "smeared" as being gay. It was the one "rumored" to be gay who attempted suicide.

"Your friend was messed up long before the poor school had the misfortune to have her as a student. And I'll bet her parents knew it. If she was gay, she should have told her parents and/or request they not send her to a religious school. The Catholic school just had the misfortune of getting her as a student. Sounds like that might apply to you too, with your axes to grind."

Do you actually stop and read what you're writing? I hope that you do because that's one of the most awful statements that I've ever read. It took my about ten minutes to calm down after reading this.

Frankly, I believe that NOBODY deserves to die and that EVERYONE deserves to be able to learn in a non-hostile environment and to be treated with dignity as a being created in the image of God. You, however, seem to believe that if someone isn't rich enough or is too fat or isn't pretty enough or happens to be gay, others, especially high school peers, should be able to torment them until they crack. And if they decide to take their own lives, then it'll decrease the amount of undesirables in the world.

Frankly, if you want to know why people, especially young people, aren't enamored with Catholicism, perhaps you should look at yourself and your own comments to get a hint. I'm not saying that you have to endorse GLAAD's political agenda (heck I don't) or even that you have to approve of their lifestyle. However, you do have to treat them with common courtesy and respect. The story of what happened at my high school is only an (extreme) example of what might happen if you don't.

[flaglady47]

Frankly, if you want to know why people, especially young people, aren't enamored with Catholicism, perhaps you should look at yourself and your own comments to get a hint.

I reiterate, you need help. Too many issues for anyone who isn't a shrink to deal with. End of conversation. If you reply, I won't.