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Ah, this brings up an interesting point. Are we lying to our kids when we say that Christmas is the day Jesus was born? I mean, the truth is, we really have no idea what day Jesus was born. The best guess is that it was sometime in the spring, given that the shepherds were watching their flocks by night, which is something they did only when they were "in season" (the spring).

Do we have to tell our children, then, as soon as they can possibly comprehend it, that December 25th was in fact a strategic choice made by the 4th century church to counter interest in pagan Saturnalia celebrations?

You could tell your kids what our priest told ours last Sunday.

That the religious beliefs of societies who ruled the known world before the birth of Christ, were derived from paganism or variations thereof. And that pagan religions from the earliest recorded time, celebrated the winter solstice as a time for celebration, marking the earth's astronomical turn from darkness, back towards the light.

That Christians were a minority for several early centuries after the life of Christ. A minority living in a majority pagan world, and a minority that was threatened with death for its beliefs (read Fox's Book of Martyrs and the stories of the lives of the early saints...read about the deaths of Christ's original disciples..) Christians were a minority that was forced to outwardly conform to pagan societal customs and celebrations, while secretly gathering together to teach, to learn and to worship.

That when the pagan society of Rome and elsewhere was celebrating lights festivals in late December to honor its gods of nature, Christians could secretly celebrate, too......knowing that their participation in festivals of light represented, to them, the light of Christ entering into a dark world. That truly no one knows the date of Christ's birth. But why not have chosen the time of the solstice, the day the earth each year turns away from darkness and to the light?

Puts a far different "spin" on this issue - and perhaps a more historically accurate perspective - than that offered by sneering secular naysayers, and fundamentals of extreme views who regard tradition as a doctrinal antithesis of Scripture rather than an adjunct... and who seem to imply that early Christians merely coopted a pagan festival so they would have an excuse to party.

Puts a far different "spin" on this issue - and perhaps a more historically accurate perspective - than that offered by sneering secular naysayers, and fundamentals of extreme views who regard tradition as a doctrinal antithesis of Scripture rather than an adjunct... and who seem to imply that early Christians merely coopted a pagan festival so they would have an excuse to party.

I'm an atheist and I tell my children adults invented Santa Claus so children will behave and go to bed early in the winter while the adults get drunk and fornicate with each other.

In fact, I instruct my children not to lie and to tell others the same thing if asked about it. I don't lie to my kids.

Now if you think that is bad, lie to your kids all you like and they will lie to you.

I don't want my kids to lie to me, and they expect the same from me...

I've read many studies regarding Christ's birth and several have pointed to something rather interesting.

Christ's conception was more likely at this time of year, exactly coinciding with Hannukah, the Feast of Lights. Yes, He is the Light of the World, and it was at His conception that THE LIGHT was brought in to the World. He would have been born 9 months later, remarkably coinciding with the Feast of Tabernacles (for then He would have been tabernacled amongst us in person). The Feast of Tabernacles is celebrated toward the end of September or early October, depending upon the Jewish Calendar each year.

A lot of my reading has indicated that a lot of people seem to favor the spring birth (which you mentioned), but that doesn't coincide as well with the dates for his cousin John the Baptist's conception and birth.