Or has not heard American saying 'what goes around comes around"
Posted on 12/25/2005 6:11:24 PM PST by ncountylee
The soviets did not invade on Christmas Day 1979
http://rescueattempt.tripod.com/id4.html
"The chaos after the war, and the rise of the Taliban, should be blamed on Pakistan--not the US."
That is so accurate!! Well said.
Good grief! The Soviets were a **far** more lethal enemy that the Islamikazis. The USSR could have destroyed us as a nation in a few minutes. As bad as 9/11 was, it would simply be noise in the devastation of a full-blown nuclear war.
Or has not heard American saying 'what goes around comes around"
Is that supposed to be bin Laden? It's from a moonbat website of disinformation.
Regardless of U.S. actions, the USSR decided to invade a sovereign, independent nation that was led by a pro-Moscow ruler.
It was a naked act of aggression, which was condemned by the entire international community, with the notable exception of Eastern Bloc nations and Soviet satellites.
The attempt to retroactively blame Americans for acts of flagrant Soviet imperialism against neiboring countries is utterly ludicrous.
I come from that neighborhood, RedRover. Have seen and lived through a lot of this nonsense personally.
The US supported group is the current government of Afghanistan, once called the "Northern Alliance". The Taliban/Al Queda group was created by Pakistan intelligence, and consisted of Pashtun tribes who were resentful of the influence of Uzbek groups in the Afghan government.
Osama was not our ally, but rather, a competitor, who wanted to use suicide bombers against the Soviets. Wasn't effective then, because suicide bombers don't get to pass on their learning.
What a complete load of crap. Carter was absolutely stunned when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. He was at the end of his presidency and still convinced world peace was obtainable simply by wanting it so, and appeasing our enemies. He was convinced his friends, the Soviets, would not invade Afghanistan, and the Soviets knew he would take little if any action. Until Reagan took office our efforts in Afghanistan were half hearted and weak. The Soviets were supporting all kinds of insurgencies throughout the world and mainly in Central America, and it made a lot of strategic sense to get them bogged down in Afghanistan.
"The US supported group is the current government of Afghanistan, once called the "Northern Alliance". The Taliban/Al Queda group was created by Pakistan intelligence, and consisted of Pashtun tribes who were resentful of the influence of Uzbek groups in the Afghan government."
That's partly right but it does not provide the entire picture. The Northern Alliance was being supported by India and Russia against the Taliban/Al Quaida. The Pakistani ISI and the military (under Musharaff's leadership) were certainly responsible for creating the Taliban and Saudi Arabia provided the funds.
The US support for the Northern Alliance was non-existent in the years between the collapse of the Soviets and 911. Of course, all that changed after 911 (understandably so).
"...it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul." - Brzezinski
"Our worst failure was weakness in the face of the Muslim threat. And it still is, on the part of liberal politicians, opinion leaders, and media."
Come on? are you telling me that a whole nation of 1200 million are a threat to the US?
"It may be that Carter and the elder Bush miscalculated, not by arming the Muslims in Afghanistan, but by letting the Saudis and Pakistanis persuade them to arm the wrong groups. We should have backed Massoud, not Hekmatyar."
WOW!! Excellent analysis, Cicero. Your understanding of the complex geopolitics in that region is matched by VERY FEW here.
You may want to see post #32 for a similar take (mine :) on the Northern Aliiance and Pakistan's/Saudi Arabia's respectie roles.
I read an excellent article by Claire Sterling many years ago. She accompanied Massoud during the Afghan war against the Soviet Union. She predicted the trouble that would result if Hekmatyar was allowed to sneak into control. At that time he was taking US and Saudi money, building up his forces, but allowing Massoud to do all the fighting against the Soviets.
I haven't had a chance to read her subsequent book, but that early article was a very enlightening piece of work.
Arabs never could live peacefully with surrounding tribes and were constantly in conflict with them. Arabs occupied the southern part of Europe and held that for hundreds of years before being driven out and, now, seem to be engaged in a bloodless attempt at taking control of Europe once again via migration. With the advent of easy, fast travel between disparate parts of the globe, the Arabs now feel they are "threatened" by people far away hence must seek destruction of those people. Arabs were content killing their countrymen until WE discovered oil now the Arabs feel angry because we are using the oil which we discovered. Now that they are rich beyond comprehension, they can buy ever more expensive weapons and armies to "protect" themselves.
To attempt placing blame on our actions as the cause of Arab aggression is silly and pointless. Much better to protect our borders and ramp up our offensive capabilities while seeking to put large crimps in their offensive capabilities.
Thats right the US cannot be blamed for the rise of Taliban. The US didn't create it. The US merely supplied arms to whoever willing to fight the Soviets. That is understandable.
It was Pakistan and Saudi Arabia that actively created, funded and trained the Taliban (and before that the Gulbuddin Hekmatyar). It was Pakistan's design to create a stategic depth out of Afghanistan and to use it as a base/launch pad from where they can carry on their jihad against India and the entire region as a whole. The Pakis and Saudis had no problems while things were working according to their plan. They quite enjoyed the fact that Amarica was looking away from the region so the Pakis and Saudis got a free hand.
Their problems started after 9/11. The Taliban were ousted and the Pakis lost their base. The current government is more India friendly and more anti-Pak. And now the Pakis and Arabs seek to blame the US for all their woes.
Ping!
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