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To: A.A. Cunningham
Well,I was sent to Roman Catholic grade school as was traditional in my father's family. And baptised as an infant and confirmed as a child.

I admit to great difficulty understanding and accepting that God who made covenants with His people,God who valued marriage and fidelity would condone a man abandoning his wife and children to follow Christ. Now if the meaning is that those who follow Christ must give up any future wife and children it still seems very odd in that only by conversion can a group that does not procreate grow. If only the priests are required to be celibate then it follows that only a small number of men would do so and the main body of the faith would procreate within the holy institution of marriage.

What do you say about the biblical passages that a bishop must be man of only one wife,and the other references to qualifications that only a man who has shown he can be a good head of a family can be a good shepherd of a church.

If I remember ,Paul said he wished all men were as he was,not just priests.Thus earthly extinction in a generation.

Since Peter,the rock upon whom Christ built His Church was shown to be fallible ,yet forgiven by Christ,I think it is presumptuous of any later leader,indeed anyone mortal, to claim infallibility under any circumsatances.

Being reminded of the old game in which A tell a story to B,who tells it to C,and so on ,so that by the time X tells the story A can hardly recognize it,I am sure that men have knowingly and unknowingly added and subtracted to His spoken words.

92 posted on 12/26/2005 4:42:01 AM PST by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: hoosierham
Well,I was sent to Roman Catholic grade school as was traditional in my father's family. And baptised as an infant and confirmed as a child.

Irrelevant. People like Frances Kissling, Richard McBrien, Dominic Crossan, Daniel Maguire, Joan Chittister, etc. all make the same claim.

condone a man abandoning his wife and children to follow Christ.

Scripture definitively teaches that only one Apostle, St. Peter, was at one time married. His wife is never mentioned in Scripture by name. In accordance with Jewish custom, the Korban rule, as well as the Fourth Commandment, children were required to care for their parents, so your characterization of abandonment is incorrect. I suppose you feel that Christ abandoned the Apostles when He sent them forth with very little.

"And He called the twelve; and began to send them two and two, and gave them power over unclean spirits. And He commanded them that they should take nothing for the way, but a staff only: no scrip, no bread, nor money in their purse, But to be shod with sandals, and that they should not put on two coats. And He said to them: Wheresoever you shall enter into an house, there abide till you depart from that place." Mark 6:7-10

"Then Peter answering, said to him: Behold we have left all things, and have followed thee: what therefore shall we have? And Jesus said to them: Amen, I say to you, that you, who have followed Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the seat of his majesty, you also shall sit on twelve seats judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for My name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall possess life everlasting. And many that are first, shall be last: and the last shall be first." Matthew 19:27-30

"And Peter began to say unto him: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee. Jesus answering, said: Amen I say to you, there is no man who hath left house or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or children, or lands, for My sake and for the gospel, Who shall not receive an hundred times as much, now in this time; houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions: and in the world to come life everlasting. But many that are first, shall be last: and the last, first." Mark 10:28-31

"Then Peter said: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee. Who said to them: Amen, I say to you, there is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Who shall not receive much more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting." Luke 18:28-30

Do you know much about the priesthood of Melchisedech and its relation to Christ and the Apostles?

What do you say about the biblical passages that a bishop must be man of only one wife,and the other references to qualifications that only a man who has shown he can be a good head of a family can be a good shepherd of a church.

Nowhere does Scripture mandate that a man "must" be married in order to be a bishop, priest or deacon. St. Paul in his instructions to St. Timothy, in his new role as Bishop of Ephesus, describes those men who Timothy could select as bishops. Polygamists, those who divorced and remarried, remarried widowers, were not to be chosen. Single men are not excluded. St. Paul being a celibate himself would have no credibility stipulating that one "must" be married. What do you have to say about the passage from Scripture in which St. Paul praises the state of celibacy?

"But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided." 1 Corinthians 7:32-33

The argument many resort to that celibacy for the clerical state is a medieval invention is bogus as well.

"ut quod apostoli docuerunt, et ipsa servavit antiquitas nos quoque custodiamus" Canon 3 Second Council of Carthage 390 AD

Celibacy is a higher calling and the nature of the Priesthood in acting persona Christi is sacrifice and sacrifice of self is inherent in the vocation just as Christ stated.

"For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it." Matthew 19:12

Since Peter,the rock upon whom Christ built His Church was shown to be fallible

The Church has never taught that St. Peter or any of his successors, as mortal men, were infallible.

I think it is presumptuous of any later leader,indeed anyone mortal, to claim infallibility under any circumsatances.

Pope John Paul II went to confession every week and he rejected any notion that he was absolutely infallible. You seem to exhibit a profound misunderstanding of the doctrine of infallibilty which can most likely be attributed to the poor catechesis you've demonstrated here.

"But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you." John 14:6

"And I will ask the Father, and He shall give you another Paraclete, that He may abide with you for ever.The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, nor knoweth Him: but you shall know Him; because He shall abide with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you." John 14:16-18

"But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me." John 15:26

I am sure that men have knowingly and unknowingly added and subtracted to His spoken words.

Men like Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, et al.

109 posted on 12/26/2005 9:48:28 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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