GOA - Fight Gun Registration Provisions in PATRIOT Act

EMail ^ | 12-21-2005 | Gun Owners of America

[jmc813]

Twice, the leadership in the U.S. Senate has tried to run H.R. 3199 up "the hill." Twice it has failed.

On Friday, supporters of the bill failed to garner the 60 votes needed to stop the filibuster of the PATRIOT conference report. The final vote was 52-47.

At issue for gun owners is a provision that would allow the FBI to obtain "firearms sales records." The bill extends Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act and allows agents of the federal government to get "firearms sales records" which, in their opinion, are relevant to investigating terrorism.

These records would be obtained from gun dealers, who are required by law to keep the gun purchase records (4473 forms). Thus, an anti-gun administration could then easily compile gun owner registration lists -- an enterprise which has often been a prelude to gun confiscation.

Congressmen on both sides of the fence made reference to GOA's concerns last week when the House considered the latest version of H.R. 3199.

During the debate, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) stated that people "should take note of what is happening here because the expanded police powers of the Federal Government will be used against them. Our Second Amendment friends already understand that...."

And Rep. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) challenged House Republicans to consider whether they are really comfortable with "allowing the FBI to access Americans' reading records, GUN RECORDS, medical records and financial records without judicial approval; [or] allowing the FBI to search someone's home without probable cause and without telling that person about the search."

In the Senate, Larry Craig (R-ID) and Russ Feingold (D-WI) led the opposition to the latest version of the bill. If a compromise is not reached, 16 provisions of the bill will expire on December 31 -- provisions that include the Section 215 "gun registration" language.

Much has been made of the expiration date later this month. People should understand that only 16 provisions of the original PATRIOT Act will expire on New Year's -- and these provisions are some of the most controversial ones in the original act, as they affect the Fourth Amendment protections that American citizens enjoy.

REGISTRATION OF GUN OWNERS

H.R. 3199 would extend provisions which the FBI claims would allow it to seize 4473 forms, without the approval of any judge.

This runs contrary to the protections that were gained in the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986, when it prohibited the establishment of any registration system with respect to firearms [18 USC 926(a)(3)]. It is also significant to note that federal code bans inspections of gun dealers records, excluding four, narrowly tailored exceptions [18 USC 923(g)(1)(b)]. Those exceptions are absent with regard to the FBI's current practice of soliciting 4473 forms under the PATRIOT Act.

The protections that were won during the McClure-Volkmer battle took years to achieve, and it would be a shame to see those protections superseded by another enactment of gun control -- all in the vain hope that gun owners' purchase records can somehow help authorities curb terrorism. (Gun registration certainly hasn't worked to curb crime in any of the states or localities that have implemented it.)

For this reason, Gun Owners of America has told Senators that we would like to see serious reforms in this bill, including language which further restricts the ability of a future, anti-gun administration to muster a gun owner registration list.

The status of H.R. 3199 is unclear at this time. But it is more than likely that the Senate will hold another vote later this week.

ACTION: Please contact your two Senators and urge them to vote against the House-Senate conference report on H.R. 3199, unless gun records are removed from the records which can be demanded under Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act.

You can visit the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators a pre-written e-mail message such as the one below.

-----Pre-written letter-----

Dear Senator:

Please vote against the current version of the PATRIOT reauthorization bill (HR 3199) because it would extend provisions which the FBI claims would allow it to seize 4473 forms, without the approval of any judge.

This runs contrary to the protections that were gained in the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986, when it prohibited the establishment of any registration system with respect to firearms [see 18 USC 926(a)(3)]. It is also significant to note that the law bans inspections of gun dealers records, excluding four, narrowly tailored exceptions [18 USC 923(g)(1)(b)]. Those exceptions are absent with regard to the FBI's current practice of soliciting 4473 forms under the PATRIOT Act.

You are certainly familiar with the rule of construction that deems more recent legislation to trump older legislation when there is a clear conflict between the two. The protections that were won during the McClure-Volkmer battle took years to achieve, and it would be a shame to see those protections superseded by another enactment of gun control -- all in the vain hope that gun owners' purchase records can somehow help authorities curb terrorism. (Gun registration certainly hasn't worked to curb crime in any of the states or localities that have implemented it.)

It is imperative that H.R. 3199 be amended to protect gun owner rights.

Please vote against cloture on H.R. 3199, unless gun records are removed from the records which can be demanded under Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act -- a move which would return the McClure-Volkmer protections as the operative law concerning when and where gun records can be demanded.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

[Realism]

It's all for our own good, we're at war you know, with Al Islamma. We need security and by god we're getting it whether we're fully aware of the means or not, preferably not.

In the eyes of the Patriot Act everyone of us is potentially a domestic terrorist and we must be protected not only from the enemy but also from ourselves. In order to do so we will be required to open our private lives and possessions to our protectors giving them the tools they need to do the job.

So in the end we Americans are very good at accomplishing the tasks at hand. So you can bet that by the time we're done we'll likely be.....EUROPE.

[lugsoul]

Tie their hands? Well, if allowing them to wiretap the 'suspected terrorists' for 72 hours before they even seek to get a warrant from the secret court that grants them more than 99% of the time is 'tying their hands,' then yes, that's what I want.

Put another way, I want them to follow the damn law rather than deciding they can make up the law and do whatever they want.

If there is no process to determine whether the lines they are listening to really belong to 'suspected terrorists,' you have no idea whether this is what they are doing or not.

I believe in our Constitution and our laws, and they have gotten us through times far more dire than these. It is when we toss them aside that we are truly imperiled.

[KDD]

bump for later

[untrained skeptic]

Could someone please direct me to the part of H.R. 3199 that they are talking about?

I've found very limited reference to firearms in the bill.

Under SEC. 7. PATRIOT SECTION 215; PROCEDURAL PROTECTIONS FOR COURT ORDERS TO PRODUCE RECORDS AND OTHER ITEMS IN INTELLIGENCE INVESTIGATIONS.

(c) Director Approval for Certain Applications- Section 501(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1861(a)) is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1), by striking `The Director' and inserting `Except as provided in paragraph (3), the Director'; and

(2) by adding at the end the following:

`(3) No application shall be made under this section for an order requiring the production of library circulation records, library patron lists, book sales records, book customer lists, firearms sales records, or medical records containing personally identifiable information without the prior written approval of the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Sounds like adding protections for firearms records, not removing them.

I don't see anything that would allow the government to build a database of firearms ownership.

They may be able to access firearms sales records of people who are agent of foreign nations if they are not US citizens.

Even then they need a warrant or the prior written approval of the director of the FBI.

Even if those criteria are met the decision is subject to oversight.

So where are the provisions that allow for creating a firearms ownership database? What am I missing? Here's the text of the bill for reference.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:5:./temp/~c109bXqhhP:e1861:

[VeniVidiVici]

Sorry. The keeping of the 4473s is already defacto registration. And the code that covers this is already big enough to drive a truck through in regards to giving the feds leeway to look at them.

I fail to see what can be gained by opposing this as they already do it.

Want to make it better? Get rid of keeping the 4473s.

[Dead Corpse]

hout the prior written approval of the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

This part used to require approval by a judge. Now the FBI can just ignore that step.

[antiRepublicrat]

"...Upon an application made pursuant to this section, if the judge finds that the application meets the requirements of subsections (a) and (b), ..

They don't even have to go that route. They can just use an NSL.

[Realism]

"It is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
--Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering

[Durus]

I've heard that before but perhaps you were being sarcastic?

[B Knotts]

LOL. Ya. I feel much better with republicans being able to abuse my rights than democrats.

Heh. Well, I was trying to communicate to the GOP boosters here.

[aligncare]

So, you put a black robe on a someone, and he suddenly is imbued with the wisdom to discern who may be a terrorist.

No. No discernment resides within the agency responsible to track terrorists. Just judges have it...unelected judges. Somehow, unelected judges know how to protect our liberties. Gee, I must have missed that in my Gestapo 101 class.

[aligncare]

My response: Read post 51.

[lugsoul]

Let me explain it to you simply. I don't care if it is a judge who does it or not - but our system has for hundreds of years relied upon the wisdom of those elder, learned persons we choose to sit in judgment. But SOMEONE must serve as a check on those who wish to infringe on liberties. The persons who WANT to search, or wiretap, or detain will naturally incline towards believing someone is a terrorist. That's what they do. Our system, however, depends on due process - that is an IMPARTIAL determination whether the evidence is sufficient to toss out constitutional protection

[aligncare]

You didn't vote for that judge, did you. But you voted for the people that appoint FBI. Who is more responsible to you? Warning: Intellectual honesty required during the next several minutes.

[JABBERBONK]

This is a reason I make sure to purchase some of my guns at gun shows from private parties, and make the exchange either in the parking lot or the parking lot at the Burger King up the road, what the Government doesn't know you have, they can't confiscate. I implore all gun owners to do the same, since every time you purchase a gun from a licensed gun shop, you are giving up your Constitutional rights.

[freepatriot32]

Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here

[mrsmith]

"They can just use an NSL."
Not under section 215.

The article says... "At issue for gun owners is a provision that would allow the FBI to obtain "firearms sales records." The bill extends Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act ".
So I quoted the relevant parts of 215 so any non-sheep can think rationally about it.

Do you have a cite from the bill on this supposed use of NSLs?

[aligncare]

Sorry, I don't agree with the premise that constitutional protection has been tossed.

The only thing tossed here, is common sense. The kind of common - self protective - sense, that helped us win WW2.

Get a grip: This is America. The kind of totalitarianism that your paranoid delusions imagine can never take hold here.

[don asmussen]

mrsmith wrote:

"-- If the mindless PA haters had any concern for facts --"

If the mindless haters ~in favor of~ the PA had any concern for facts --

Could it be that 'mindless hate' just might be the problem? -- And that abiding by the ~facts~ of our Constitution will be the answer?

[Realism]

The kind of totalitarianism that your paranoid delusions imagine can never take hold here.

And your witnessing why right here right now.

I'm sure their is a provision or two for us non-team players also.