Episcopalians face up to decline

NorthJersey.com ^ | 12/9/05 | John Chadwick

[TXBSAFH]

Yes, and that is the only issue I have with him. Beyond that he is great.

[Redleg Duke]

I would like to see a loss-versus timeline here. I wonder if there was a significant spike in losses, say, about the time that New Hampshire adulterous, fudge-packer was ordained as bishop?

[ichabod1]

The real dissonance I have is that it's not only Fiorenza, they all seem to have the attitude that we shouldn't hinder the illegals. I can understand that the church's mission extends to them regardless of their legal status, but to help them scoff at the law is over the line. If the church wants them so bad let it support them.

[Pontiac]

although it might come from another of his heretical books.

I think the operative word here is heretical or more simply heresy.

The modern churches no longer use the word. Maybe they think it is old fashioned.

But if nothing is beyond the pale anymore do you really have doctrine or dogma (another word which is now passé).

If nothing is accepted the unquestioned revealed word of God then what is the point of going to church, what is the point of any religion?

The Churches must return to having trials for heresy (at least for clergy) and expelling those who unapologetically spout heresies.

To not do so is to surrender totally to Nihilism.

[Proud_texan]

"The dignity and beauty that was the Episcopal Church can't be found."

Our Church left ECUSA in '92 and joined the The Episcopal Missionary Church. 1928 Prayer book, the first requirement for Priests is that they are heterosexual males, etc.

We've been growing about 20% a year until Robinson happened and since then it's been 35%.

There are alternatives out there, use a search engine for 1928 Book of Common Prayer and your location and most likely you'll find something.

Hang in, it's worth saving, just not with ECUSA, that's a lost cause.

[Our man in washington]

Related point about liberal Protestantism:

I have a friend who is going to divinty school in Presbyterianism at a very prominent school. She told me recently that she doesn't believe in life after death.

The fact she doesn't believe one the central points of
the Christian faith and wants to be a Christian minister is mind-boggling.

[Aquinasfan]

Michael Medved interviewed Spong a couple months ago, best interview I ever heard him do. Totally pegged him.

Would have liked to have heard that. Remember anything in particular?

[Heatseeker]

LOL - one of those guys could be my dad, who refused to leave. Of course he's an unrepentant New Deal Dem, so I suppose it goes with the territory. ;)

[Pontiac]

the strong penetrates the weak, dominates the weak, kills and tortures the weak. A lawless world

He doesn't feel that the Bible is the revealed word of God

If you don’t believe that the Bible is the revealed word of God, then God’s words carry no more weight than the any man’s (maybe less).

There for, violating God’s laws carries no penalty (no damnation or fires of he!!).

So all he has to worry about is being caught and jail time.

If he is paying attention he knows that most perpetrators are not caught and receive no punishment.

No fear of a God he does not believe in and little fear of men he does not believe can catch him.

He believes in the natural law, might is right.

[miele man]

Of course, you are correct that the operative word is heresy. The Episcopal Church has become increasingly mired in it ever since she refused to find Bp. Pike in error for heresy. More recently, she refused to find another bishop, (named Righter I believe), guilty of heresy. In between these bookend heretical bishops, church belief, faith, practice and doctrine have been watered down or outright jettisoned in favor of a man centered, touch-feely humanism. The Episcopal Church surrendered long ago.

[stripes1776]

The Episcopal church is dead. I am a cradle Episcopalian.

As far as I am concerned, it died decades ago with Bishop Pike. He broke everything he touched in the church, and then when it wasn't fun any more tearing the church to pieces, he resigned and walked away from the mess he created. He went off to Israel with his third wife, only to fall to his death under strange circumstances. The Episcopal Church has never recovered from what he started.

[miele man]

I cannot now give you a time-line but I do know that the Episcopal Church reached an apex in membership in 1965. At that time, she had 3.2 million members. From then on until the mid 1980s, she declined in members to approximately 1.2 million (Baptized members). Estimates of "Confirmed" members were in the mid to high 800,000 range. These losses coincided with the increase of clergy, bishops and lay leaders' loss of faith and their outright apostasy. By way of comparison, the Methodist Church lost members in this same period at the rate of 58,000 per week. The Presbyterian church likewise lost members at a high rate during this period. Their losses were for the same reasons as the Episcopal Church.

Now, the Episcopal church says there membership in closer to 2 million if I correctly (somewhat dimly) recall what I last read. However, there have been thousands of folks who've left but who have not been purged from the parish rolls as is (or sued to be) required by the canon law.

I would guess that there have been membership losses since Vicki Gene (the "fudge packer bishop") was made a bishop. In the Diocese of Newark's report "Signs of Grace", they stated Episcopal Church losses were about one third or 15 per cent of the diocese of Newark's losses". This would be the time frame you mention (approximately).

[miele man]

(or sued to be)= (or used to be)

[Busywhiskers]

They should simply be honest and convert to being a Rotory Club instead of a supposedly Christian church.

(No offense to Rotory Clubs.)

[longtermmemmory]

They reach as far back as 1972 in order to conceal the more recent liberalism of the homosexual bishop.

[rbg81]

Alas my only surprise is that it's happening now. I thought it would take them another decade before they devolved back into paganism. Is (male) human sacrifice far behind?

[goldstategop]

Who wants to belong to a liberal Church? You can get the same stuff from the Democratic Party.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")