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To: jdm
"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you."

I think that's a damn lie.

33 posted on 12/08/2005 12:31:53 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Howlin
"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you."

"I think that's a damn lie."

It sounds to me like this guy was definitely NOT following the instructions of the officers, was instead doing exactly what they told him NOT to do (studying their procedures, talking on a cell phone), and he got their instructions explained to him in a more direct fashion.

The officers had a serious job to do, and they had to do it fast. From this guy's description of the events, it appears as if he was making a problem of himself.

112 posted on 12/08/2005 12:49:23 PM PST by wyattearp (The best weapon to have in a gunfight is a shotgun - preferably from ambush.)
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To: Howlin
"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you." I think that's a damn lie.

A Miami SWAT team boarded the plane after the shooting. That's probably where the shotgun came from.

Let's face it, most people don't like having weapons leveled at them, or being in the middle of shootouts, or having their bags blown apart, or any number of things that went on. As a result, a lot of them are going to give accounts hostile to the marshals.

The marshal messed up, plain and simple, his job is to shoot terrorists, Rigoberto Alpizar was not a terrorist. It was an understandable error, given the circumstances, but an error none the less.

The unfortunate consequence of his error is that there are going to be more formal procedures and second guessing that are going to limit the aggressiveness of the marshals during a real attack.

Try this on for size:

WASHINGTON, Dec. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- The hearts of all NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) members go out to the family of Rigoberto Alpizar and to the marshals involved in the shooting, who we know must be profoundly affected by this tragedy. We recognize that air marshals have very difficult jobs and sometimes have to make split second, life and death decisions. NAMI calls upon the Federal Air Marshall Service and all other law enforcement agencies to take a close look at its training and education protocols and, if currently lacking, adopt measures to prepare officers to respond effectively to people with severe mental illness. Law enforcement officers frequently come into contact with people who may be acting erratically or irrationally due to severe mental illnesses or other brain disorders, such as Alzheimer's disease. Many communities throughout the United States, including Miami, have adopted Crisis Intervention Team (CIT) programs to better prepare officers to respond to these situations. These programs work and save lives!

I suspect that you are going to see more and more of this type of language "We know they have to make split second decisions - but...". Unfortuately this is the process that helps us begin to slowly slide towards the next 9/11

151 posted on 12/08/2005 12:59:52 PM PST by hedgie
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