Posted on 12/02/2005 7:13:17 AM PST by billorites
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Limbo -- the place where the Catholic Church teaches that babies go if they die before being baptized -- may have its days numbered.
According to Italian media reports on Tuesday, an international theological commission will advise Pope Benedict to eliminate the teaching about limbo from the Catholic catechism.
The Catholic Church teaches that babies who die before they can be baptized go to limbo, whose name comes from the Latin for "border" or "edge," because they deserve neither heaven nor hell.
Last October, seven months before he died, Pope John Paul asked the commission to come up with "a more coherent and enlightened way" of describing the fate of such innocents.
It was then headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was elected Pope in April. It is now headed by his successor at the Vatican's doctrinal department, Archbishop William Levada, an American from San Francisco.
The commission, which has been meeting behind closed doors, may make its recommendation soon.
In his Divine Comedy, Dante passes limbo on his way into hell and writes: "Great grief seized on my own heart when this I heard, because some people of much worthiness I knew, who in limbo were suspended."
read later
Catholics who grew up before the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) tend to have strong memories of the concept of "limbo," referring to a sort of antechamber in the afterlife for babies who die without baptism, and hence are stained with original sin and can't go to Heaven, but who have not incurred any guilt of their own, and therefore don't belong in Hell either.
Over the centuries, theologians locked horns over how to define limbo. Some, basing themselves on Augustine, said it was essentially a milder form of Hell, while others, including Aquinas, said it was a more positive state of "perfect natural happiness," meaning the full flowering of our natural capacity for fulfillment, though without the added supernatural joy of the Beatific Vision.
Limbo, it should be said, was never defined as a dogma of the Catholic faith, but is instead a concept worked out by theologians as a way to try to solve a conflict between the necessity of baptism and the mercy of God.
In more recent theological reflection, limbo has generally been downplayed in favor of hope that these infants will make it to Heaven in the full sense. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, #1261, says this:
"As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: 'Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,' allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism."
This week, the International Theological Commission, the main advisory body to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is meeting at the Domus Sanctae Marthae, the $30 million hotel on Vatican grounds where the cardinals lodged during the conclave, to consider a document on eschatology, meaning the church's doctrine of Heaven, Hell, and final judgment. The document started out as a specific reflection on limbo, but the commission decided that to do justice to the subject, they needed to put it in this broader context.
Broadly speaking, the commission is expected to recommend that the concept of limbo not be revived, and that it be replaced by an emphasis on Christian hope. Following the Swiss theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar, the idea is that we don't know the limits, if any, to God's mercy, and therefore we are entitled to hope (not to assert as a matter of principle, but to hope) that all may be saved, including infants who never received baptism.
Snappy news headlines this week have suggested that the pope is about to "drop" or "cancel" limbo. In fact, the document will not be published for some months, if not longer, and even then it has only the status of a recommendation to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. It's not always certain the CDF will take the advice; the International Theological Commission published a document on Christian liberation in 1977, for example, that was friendlier to liberation theology than the CDF's eventual instruction in 1984.
Nevertheless, an old concept is getting a new look this week, which illustrates one form of what Cardinal John Henry Newman called the "development of doctrine."
"The Catholic Church teaches that babies who die before they can be baptized go to limbo, whose name comes from the Latin for "border" or "edge," because they deserve neither heaven nor hell."
Water baptism is for those who believe. "He who believes and is baptised shall be saved." (Mark 16:16). No promise is made to those who are baptised without believing. Many people are "baptised" as babies, by immersion in the Orthodox Tradition or by sprinkling in the Catholic, Anglican and Reformed traditions. However, there is no example in the New Testament of babies being baptised. A baby, as yet without understanding, cannot believe the gospel, cannot repent, cannot confess its sin. It is not yet responsible for its actions, and God, who is infinitely just, does not condemn to damnation babies who die. "Let the little children come to me, and do not forbid them, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven." (Matthew 19:14). Innocent babies and very small children belong to God. "Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 18:10).
The doctrine of purgatory also merits attention.
>Catholics don't immediately rush to see what the Bible says on a topic and proclaim that the Bible=Christianity. <
So you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God?
That is a theological interpretation that some believe, but I don't. I'm sure enough books have been written on that subject, pro and con, to fill a library, so I will not even attempt to disuade you.
Jesus is the Word of God. The Bible is writing inspired by God.
SD
I believe in the Holy Ghost; one holy Christian Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.
What does this mean?-
I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel…… (Matt 16).
If we believe this, as opposed to reformed predestination or total free will, Lutherans baptize as a means of bringing salvation to babies. In other words, we recognize it is what GOD has done first in our lives.
Further: (Holy Spirit) ..enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith;. This is why Lutherans believe in one baptism... the Holy Spirit is involved with justification and sanctification. Baptism joins us with Christ in his death and resurrection. However, this does not mean I think that people who practice freewill or predestination are dammed, I beleive most church try to put GOD in box, then create "rules" to get him out.
No, you couldn't. I grew up in a church that believed in the age of accountability. When I began to learn reformed theology, it was as though that was the truth I had been missing. You are right, enough books have been written on it to fill a library. I'me in a book club at church and we've been reading some recent books that question original sin. It alarms me. Interestingly, it has been non-evangelical and non-reform writers who have helped confirm this belief for me. C. S. Lewis is one.
II. LIMBUS INFANTIUM (The Limbo of the infants)Notice this important phrase from the "Limbo" entry in the old Catholic Encyclopedia:The New Testament contains no definite statement of a positive kind regarding the lot of those who die in original sin without being burdened with grievous personal guilt. But, by insisting on the absolute necessity of being "born again of water and the Holy Ghost" (John 3:5) for entry into the kingdom of Heaven (see "Baptism," subtitle Necessity of Baptism), Christ clearly enough implies that men are born into this world in a state of sin, and St. Paul's teaching to the same effect is quite explicit (Romans 5:12 sqq.). On the other hand, it is clear form Scripture and Catholic tradition that the means of regeneration provided for this life do not remain available after death, so that those dying unregenerate are eternally excluded from the supernatural happiness of the beatific vision (John 9:4, Luke 12:40, 16:19 sqq., 2 Corinthians 5:10; see also "Apocatastasis"). The question therefore arises as to what, in the absence of a clear positive revelation on the subject, we ought in conformity with Catholic principles to believe regarding the eternal lot of such persons. Now it may confidently be said that, as the result of centuries of speculation on the subject, we ought to believe that these souls enjoy and will eternally enjoy a state of perfect natural happiness; and this is what Catholics usually mean when they speak of the limbus infantium, the "children's limbo."
1913 Catholic Encyclopedia
Now it may confidently be said that, as the result of centuries of speculation on the subject, we ought to believe...With "confidence," not "certainty." And, "after centuries of speculation." Although Catholics at the time "ought" to believe this teaching, this "ought" is not of the same binding nature as dogmatic teaching, but it is the "ought" of simple obedience to common Church teaching (Church teaching that is "common opinion" or "common theological speculation").
The Church itself teaches that its teachings are of varying degrees of certitude, ranging from binding dogmatic teachings (teachings of Ecumenical Councils and ex cathedra papal decrees, Catholic truths [truths that follow necessarily from dogmatic teachings]), down through "common opinion," "pious belief," and "theological speculation."
The doctrine of Limbo falls somewhere in the middle as a common theological speculation. Refinement of such teachings is not unprecedented or unusual.
we recognize it is what GOD has done first in our lives.
Amen!
But we don't believe that we bring salvation to babies--only God did that through Jesus. We baptize our babies as a sign of God's work through Jesus. It's a sign, a stamp, of God's grace.
I understand that, but...
The "baptism" itself -- I don't see the Bible say anywhere that in order to be saved, you must have water poured over your head and certain ceremonial words stated. In other words, shouldn't we ask the question: what IS baptism?
>Catholics are not bound to a 'book' as are Protestants. <
Explain what bound to a book means.Are you saying that the Bible can be contradicted by a teaching?
It is not a "nat" to oberve the very phenomenon I am taling about in action. Confusion of the Eternal Word with merely the contents of the Bible is endemic.
The Word of God is not limited to the printed word. He operates through the Church and through other means to present Truth to us daily. Looking only inside a book, even The Book, is a fallacy.
SD
tradition and the magisterium = docrines of man
The inerrant Word of God is the only clear choice.
Purgatory
1913 Catholic EncyclopediaIII. PROOFS
Old Testament
The tradition of the Jews is put forth with precision and clearness in II Maccabees. Judas, the commander of the forces of Israel,
making a gathering . . . sent twelve thousand drachmas of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead). And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins. (2 Maccabees 12:43-46)At the time of the Maccabees the leaders of the people of God had no hesitation in asserting the efficacy of prayers offered for the dead, in order that those who had departed this life might find pardon for their sins and the hope of eternal resurrection.New Testament
There are several passages in the New Testament that point to a process of purification after death. Thus, Jesus Christ declares (Matthew 12:32): "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come." According to St. Isidore of Seville (Deord. creatur., c. xiv, n. 6) these words prove that in the next life "some sins will be forgiven and purged away by a certain purifying fire." St. Augustine also argues "that some sinners are not forgiven either in this world or in the next would not be truly said unless there were other [sinners] who, though not forgiven in this world, are forgiven in the world to come" (De Civ. Dei, XXI, xxiv). The same interpretation is given by Gregory the Great (Dial., IV, xxxix); St. Bede (commentary on this text); St. Bernard (Sermo lxvi in Cantic., n. 11) and other eminent theological writers.
A further argument is supplied by St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15:
"For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay stubble: Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."While this passage presents considerable difficulty, it is regarded by many of the Fathers and theologians as evidence for the existence of an intermediate state in which the dross of lighter transgressions will be burnt away, and the soul thus purified will be saved. This, according to Bellarmine (De Purg., I, 5), is the interpretation commonly given by the Fathers and theologians; and he cites to this effect:St. Ambrose (commentary on the text, and Sermo xx in Ps. cxvii), St. Jerome, (Comm. in Amos, c. iv), St. Augustine (Comm. in Ps. xxxvii), St. Gregory (Dial., IV, xxxix), and Origen (Hom. vi in Exod.). See also St. Thomas, "Contra Gentes,", IV, 91. For a discussion of the exegetical problem, see Atzberger, "Die christliche Eschatologie", p. 275.Tradition
This doctrine that many who have died are still in a place of purification and that prayers avail to help the dead is part of the very earliest Christian tradition. Tertullian "De corona militis" mentions prayers for the dead as an Apostolic ordinance, and in "De Monogamia" (cap. x, P. L., II, col. 912) he advises a widow "to pray for the soul of her husband, begging repose for him and participation in the first resurrection"; he commands her also "to make oblations for him on the anniversary of his demise," and charges her with infidelity if she neglect to succour his soul. This settled custom of the Church is clear from St. Cyprian, who (P. L. IV, col. 399) forbade the customary prayers for one who had violated the ecclesiastical law. "Our predecessors prudently advised that no brother, departing this life, should nominate any churchman as his executor; and should he do it, that no oblation should be made for him, nor sacrifice offered for his repose." Long before Cyprian, Clement of Alexandria had puzzled over the question of the state or condition of the man who, reconciled to God on his death-bed, had no time for the fulfilment of penance due his transgression. His answer is: "the believer through discipline divests himself of his passions and passes to the mansion which is better than the former one, passes to the greatest torment, taking with him the characteristic of repentance for the faults he may have committed after baptism. He is tortured then still more, not yet attaining what he sees others have acquired. The greatest torments are assigned to the believer, for God's righteousness is good, and His goodness righteous, and though these punishments cease in the course of the expiation and purification of each one, "yet" etc. (P. G. IX, col. 332).
In Origen the doctrine of purgatory is very clear. If a man depart this life with lighter faults, he is condemned to fire which burns away the lighter materials, and prepares the soul for the kingdom of God, where nothing defiled may enter. "For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones (1 Corinthians 3); but also wood and hay and stubble, what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones? Neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood, and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works." (P. G., XIII, col. 445, 448).
The Apostolic practice of praying for the dead which passed into the liturgy of the Church, is as clear in the fourth century as it is in the twentieth. St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechet. Mystog., V, 9, P.G., XXXIII, col. 1116) describing the liturgy, writes: "Then we pray for the Holy Fathers and Bishops that are dead; and in short for all those who have departed this life in our communion; believing that the souls of those for whom prayers are offered receive very great relief, while this holy and tremendous victim lies upon the altar." St. Gregory of Nyssa (P. G., XLVI, col. 524, 525) states that man's weaknesses are purged in this life by prayer and wisdom, or are expiated in the next by a cleansing fire. "When he has quitted his body and the difference between virtue and vice is known he cannot approach God till the purging fire shall have cleansed the stains with which his soul was infested. That same fire in others will cancel the corruption of matter, and the propensity to evil." About the same time the Apostolic Constitution gives us the formularies used in succouring the dead. "Let us pray for our brethren who sleep in Christ, that God who in his love for men has received the soul of the depart one, may forgive him every fault, and in mercy and clemency receive him into the bosom of Abraham, with those who in this life have pleased God" (P. G. I, col. 1144). Nor can we pass over the use of the diptychs where the names of the dead were inscribed; and this remembrance by name in the Sacred Mysteries--(a practice that was from the Apostles) was considered by Chrysostom as the best way of relieving the dead (In I Ad Cor., Hom. xli, n. 4, G., LXI, col. 361, 362).
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jesus sent His Apostles out with the charge to Baptise the nations. This wasn't on a lark.
SD
Of course not. But many are misled because they attempt to divorce the Bible from its context within the Church and Traditional understanding.
SD
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.