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To: highball

“If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” Charles Darwin, On the Origin of Species, 1958, p. 171.

I think that's a pretty big hole. There is no way a bacterial flagellum, which has some forty odd proteins necessary for it's function, could be the result of "numerous, successive, slight modifications." Only about ten of those proteins have been shown to have any other potential functionality. How did the other thirty accumulate? This is an very simple organism we're talking about. The theories I've read trying to explain it away simply aren't persuasive, because they always seem to miss the point.

Look, I'm not saying there's no room for argument here, and I'm not trying to start one. I just have never met any group of people quite as dogmatic as evolutionists. I have yet to be involved in a discussion with one that didn't descend into name-calling and condescension. And I don't even consider myself an ID proponent. I'm just what you might call an evolution sceptic, that's all.


143 posted on 12/01/2005 2:07:00 PM PST by Hank All-American (Free Men, Free Minds, Free Markets baby!)
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To: Hank All-American
“If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” Charles Darwin, On the Origin of Species, 1958, p. 171. I think that's a pretty big hole.

It would be, if such an organ had ever been found. But that's not the case.

There is no way a bacterial flagellum, which has some forty odd proteins necessary for it's function, could be the result of "numerous, successive, slight modifications." Only about ten of those proteins have been shown to have any other potential functionality. How did the other thirty accumulate? This is an very simple organism we're talking about. The theories I've read trying to explain it away simply aren't persuasive, because they always seem to miss the point.

Even Behe had to admit (once he was under oath) that "irreducible complexity" hasn't been shown. Structures that he had previously claimed were irreducibly complex were demonstrably not.

I will eagerly admit that we don't know the intermediary steps for every single structure. That is not a fatal problem for evolution, though. Holes in our knowledge are being filled all the time, and the new evidence has always provided additional support for the ToE.

Read Darwin's quote again. “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” Such a complex organ has not been found. Darwin's right - if it could be found, then the ToE falls apart. But just because he lists possible falsifications doesn't mean that the theory has been falsified.

Look, I'm not saying there's no room for argument here, and I'm not trying to start one. I just have never met any group of people quite as dogmatic as evolutionists. I have yet to be involved in a discussion with one that didn't descend into name-calling and condescension.

If that's been your experience, then I'm sorry. I haven't participated in that, and neither have the scientists that I know here. It still doesn't alter the vast amount of evidence to support the ToE, and the absence of a single other legitimate scientific theory to address the evidence.

146 posted on 12/01/2005 2:15:41 PM PST by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Hank All-American
I think that's a pretty big hole. There is no way a bacterial flagellum, which has some forty odd proteins necessary for it's function, could be the result of "numerous, successive, slight modifications."

Your inability to imagine is not a hinderence to science. Take a look at what others can imagine.

189 posted on 12/01/2005 6:07:18 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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