I wouldn't dismiss the Vietnam comparison out of hand. At least the Dem meme that Iraq is like Vietnam.
Anecdotal story. Daughter comes by yesterday, towing along my beloved granddaughter and two young teens related to her husband.
She comes in breathlessly and says "Mom, I'm trying to teach them history. They think Iraq was like Vietnam. Why did we go into Vietnam?"
Now these young teens, freshly American, keenly fashionable, are somehow buying this Iraq and Vietnam thing. My daughter, who's only 29 but more on top of news than most due to my big mouth, had no info to offer to counter their claim.
Worst of all, -I- had no lengthy diatrabe to explain.
This is because back during Vietnam I didn't know anything. Back then we had Dan Rather and Walter Conkrite and no other news source. Back then the congress critters were running the war, something that should not be allowed. Back then our mission to help the Vietnamese to avoid Communist takeover was never made clear to the public. Back then there was a horrific draft that ruined my first marriage and left me carrying a bitterness for many, many years. I marched and protested and carried candles in the rain.
Now that I'm older, now that there's an Internet, now that there's talk radio, I've learned so much. I especially despise that I've been lied to for so many years.
So this Vietnam issue and comparisons, it might work.
Because too many people just didn't understand Vietnam.
Does anybody doubt that had there been an information atmosphere like there is today that Vietnam would have ended quite differently? So how to explain it to our children?
So how to explain it to our children?
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One significant difference that will be easy for young people to understand is that there was a draft, and huge numbers of casualties. As soon as the draft was ended [during the Nixon admin, btw], the college campus protests ended. So their protests.
Another difference is that then the Free World [aka us] was in a life or death struggle against the advances of the Soviet Empire. There is not a major military power trying to take over the world today.
Also, if they're "old enough" perhaps you'd show them some of the mass graves from Saddam's reign and draw a comparison to the death camps of Nazism. This is a *just* war, fought only by volunteers and compared to comparable conflicts, the cost in American soldier's lives is low. It isn't that we're PRO-war, it is that we're pro-freedom, pro-justice and we're fighting for our nation's survival in the War on Terror and if Iraq falls to the terrorists, they'll be able to strike at the civilized world much easier through economics, have the means to create and deliver weapons of mass destruction.
| Revolution | 4,044 |
| War of 1812 | 1,950 |
| Mexican War | 13,271 |
| Civil War (Union only) | 359,528 |
| Spanish - American War | 2,430 |
| World War I | 106,378 |
| World War II | 318,274 |
| Korea | 30,161 |
| Vietnam | 38,195 |
This is one of my favorite topics and something that I most often have to argue with folks normally on "my side" of the political aisle.
Iraq and Vietnam are, fundamentally, identical.
Both conflicts were/are small pieces in a larger war against a hateful ideology that exploits the worst in human nature and uses the most vile techniques to subjegate the people, all in pursuit of world wide domination. Our country won the military conflict in both cases, but were hamstrung by squeamish politicians and media.
In both cases the MSM has provided an unrelenting stream of negative and dishonest propaganda intentionally architected to undermine public support for the conflict. And in both cases the traitor party (copyright Ann Coulter) has encouraged our enemies and provided them aid and comfort in pursuit of their own political agenda.
We need to crush the "Vietnam syndrome" in Iraq and win the peace, which we are well on our way to achieving. Then we have to revisit the history of Vietnam and tear apart the lies the were foisted on us. I'd love to have this happen before Uncle Walter and John "I'm a war hero" Kerry shuffle off of this mortal coil. They'd look great being frog marched into Leavenworth.
IMHO it has been the Dims goal since almost day one (and the MSM dutifully helps them achieve it by printing the DNC talking points and Bush-bashing as 'reporting'). IIRC, they started spewing 'quagmire' and making comparisons to Viet Nam about 2 weeks after the war in Iraq started. Then they had to back down right after that when our brave troops took Bagdad. They had to shut up so they celebrated for a week or so, along w taking credit for giving the Pres the right to go to war (especially when there were pictures of Iraqis holding up pictures of Pres Bush and kissing them, signs with 'Thank You Americans", etc.).
When the President's poll numbers continued to be up, and there were slight turns in the war, they went back to the 'quagmire' and Viet Nam comparisons. The Dims saw that the American people supported and trusted the President and the Pubbies more than the Dims on National Security issues. One of the Dims goals has been to show that the President cannot be trusted on Nat’l Security and they can so they think they can win in the 2006 and 2008 elections. IMHO, it's very sad that they are putting politics (taking back the House, Sentate, and WH) over the safety of our troops, security of our country, America's (and the Admin's) standing in the world (e.g, FWIW view by the citizens of other countries), and freedom to millions of people. All that most of them care about is getting power back, and they don't care about the other costs. The Viet Nam War is one of the only wars in which America fought that many Americans living today can remember or remember hearing about. By hammering on Iraq is like Viet Nam, they think that the American people will turn and want to pull out of Iraq like we did in VN. Many of the Dims in Congress (especially the Senate) are also stuck in the 60’s in the enemies we have, the way wars are fought, and other domestic matters (too bad they don’t start thinking post 9/11).
While the polls (for what they're worth) are showing more Americans want to end the Iraq war, the support is totally different that in VN. Americans are more supportive of our troops and their mission. While we were fighting communism during Viet Nam, after 9/11, many people understand that we have a different enemy and need to fight the GWOT differently.
The protests on this war are primarily by a bunch of left-wing wackos (Cindy S, et al), VN peace-nik leftovers, and/or paid protestors (compared to a lot of students during VN who didn’t want to be drafted and some peace-niks who were into the ‘make love not war’ flower child, pot-smoking lifestyle of the day). There isn't the mass protesting as there was during the VN war. And, the protestors of today are primarily protesting the Admin (through the guise of protesting the war). I suspect that if Kerry was in office, there would be very few protests. And, while the polls are temporarily down, I think they would turn around quickly w the MSM and/or Admin talking about all the great things that are being done in Iraq.
We were so close to winning the war in Viet Nam, it's too bad we pulled out when we did. Had we stayed, it could have saved many lives. One comparison to Iraq is that if we pull out now or soon, Iraq could break out into a civil war and/or be overrun by Al-Q and prevent a democracy from flourishing in the area. The Dims and the MSM bashing the Admin (Pubbie) hasn’t changed. Nixon had his problems and they were trying to bring him down, so Congress didn’t vote for the $s to carry on the VN war (even though, IIRC, while we were pulling our troops out Nixon had promised the South Viet Namese that we would help them with equipment, etc.). As I understand it, the North Viet Namese were ready to surrender until they kept hearing the harping and lack of support from the Dims. Once we pulled the troops out of VN and withheld $s to help the South Viet Namese, it emboldened the North Viet Namese. The Dims and MSM continued harping today emboldens Al-Q and other terrorists. The Dims and MSM keep piling on the Pres and Admin trying to create problems thinking they can bring him down. Too bad they are again only thinking of themselves and their addiction to power and not about our country, our troops, the lives of millions of people in another country, and the possibility of a democracy which could lead to more stability in a very volatile region of the world.
9-11-01. Vietnam did not start with the NVA killing 3000 American Civilians. We are busy helping the Iraqis kill off the terrorists in Iraq. The same way we killed Nazis, Fascists and Japanese Samurai in WW2 to keep our Freedom, we are killing Islamic Terrorists where we find them. When we have killed enough Jihadists to make an impression on the extremists faction of Islam that fighting with US is going to get them dead, we will have peace. Bad men do bad things. It is up to us to stop them. It is NOT morally courageous to proclaim we should "run away" from those who want to kill innocents in the name of their God. Hiding from this fight will NOT make it go away. Time for the American Left to grow up. This is not 1971, these are not the North Vietnamese we are fighting.
I just finished reading your post about how you "saw" the Vietnam War from your perspective and the perspective the MSM fed us back then...
I was the same way, except I wasn't old enough to marry, but as a young teenager, I was totally ignorant about everything...why we were there...and so on.
At least the younger people of today don't have the excuse of NOT finding out what is going on...