Posted on 11/26/2005 10:22:01 PM PST by Jeremydmccann
92 of my relatives dies NEEDLESSLY at the hands of the DY army, just because they were:
1 UNarmed, 2.women,elderly men & children AND
3. simply because they were NOT white people.
free dixie,sw
rotflol AT you.
BOTH north & south had about the same percentage of slave-OWNERS. the percentage was about 5-6% in both regions.
fwiw, lincoln said that he was willing to push for & pass a Constitutional amendment to PRESERVE slavery PERMANENTLY, if the south would not secede. as the south DID secede, it means one of 2 things. either,
1. the southerners were smart enough to know lincoln's word of honor was worth BUMPKUS or
2. the WBTS was NOT about slavery.
actually, the correct answer is: c. BOTH of the above.
free dixie,sw
free dixie,sw
If the South had seceded, it would have created an elitist/peasant/serf aristocracy that would have descended into tyranny to enable it's elites to hold onto power, much the same as Hitler and Stalin. There would have been secret police squads, lynchings and worse.
Many of the Southern apologists here would be among the serfs and would have been living in squalor and fear.
Lincoln had guidance from God IMO. Lincoln is a greater hero of the South than of the North.
Population of the Union states, about 22M, including about 500K slaves. According to the 1860 census, there were about 90,000 slaveowners, allowing a probably over-liberal allowance for WV.
Population of Confederate states, about 9M, including about 4.8M slaves, with around 310K slaveowners.
That's about 0.4% of the free Union population that owned slaves as compared to about 6% of the free Confederate population. IOW, 15 times.
I've been having interesting discussions regarding the 'meaning' of the Confederate Flag.
It seems to me that the Confederate Flag today represents different things to different people. Blacks generally seem to believe that the Confederate Flag represents racism. My impression is that white rednecks generally believe the meaning behind the Civil War and the Confederate Flag is all about representing states' rights.
Rednecks might display or wear a symbol of the confederate flag, to demonstrate their pride in being southern. But Blacks who see the confederate flag almost always see it as a 'threat'. It seems that sometimes rednecks enjoying pushing those buttons.
What does the confederate flag really represent? Why was the Civil War really fought?
Is there only one answer?
Today the textbooks tell students (and teachers are teaching it) that the southerners wanted to keep slavery and that main reason is the only one that has been taught for the last 20 years or so.
I always understood and believe that the Civil War was fought because the southerners didn't want their individual state's rights to be trampled.
Unfortunately, it's not about fighting the Civil War all over again, but in the south the dilemma behind the "meaning" of the Civil War plays a huge part in the racial divisions and biogtry that continues today. The worst of it is that a good portion of the bigotry and prejudice is being directed from the Blacks toward the whites. There is still a lot of civil unrest.
Do you believe northerners have purposely perpetuated the 'myth' that the Civil War was fouhght solely to end slavery in order to justify the oppression of the south?
Where did you get your statistics?
Even though the disparity of the percentage of people owning slaves was, as you state, fifteen times difference, BOTH numbers were under TEN PERCENT. That means that less than TEN PERCENT Of the population in the south owned slaves. Actually closer to FIVE PERCENT....
NINETY FIVE percent of the population wasn't fighting to keep slaves, were they? What were they fighting for?
To defend the Constitution.
After the death of over 600,000 Americans, Lincoln gave us the 14th Amendment.
Unfortunately, most FReepers don't realize what that affect that particular Amendment has on our inalienable rights.
It made us 'federal' citizens instead of State ones:
"A citizen of the United States is a citizen of the federal government ..."
(Kitchens v. Steele 112 F.Supp 383).
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It made us *legal* persons instead of human beings:
"... a construction is to be avoided, if possible, that would render the law unconstitutional, or raise grave doubts thereabout. In view of these rules it is held that `citizen' means `citizen of the United States,' and not a person generally, nor citizen of a State ..."
U.S. Supreme Court in US v. Cruikshank, 92 US 542:
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The US Supreme Court in Logan v. US, 12 SCt 617, 626:
"In Baldwin v. Franks ... it was decided that the word `citizen' .... was used in its political sense, and not as synonymous with `resident', `inhabitant', or `person' ..."
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14 CJS section 4 quotes State v. Manuel 20 NC 122:
"... the term `citizen' in the United States, is analogous to the term `subject' in the common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government."
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U.S. v. Rhodes, 27 Federal Cases 785, 794:
"The amendment [fourteenth] reversed and annulled the original policy of the constitution"
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Hague v. CIO, 307 US 496, 520:
"... the first eight amendments have uniformly been held not be protected from state action by the privileges and immunities clause" [of the fourteenth amendment]
That's right! the US Supreme Court says that Fourteenth Amendment citizens are not protected by the Bill of Rights.
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THIS is where our rights went. Lincoln was NO hero....he 'freed' no one.
He merely enslaved us all
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Oh... just so everyone knows what a slimy politician/lawyer he was.... he DID believe in succession (until it no longer served his political agenda, anyway):
"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right – a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit." –
Abraham Lincoln, speech in Congress January 1848
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Too bad so many people worship this POS that destroyed the country and defiled the sacrifices of the Founders who pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor to create a REPUBLIC!
Whether these grumblers from the grave of our old Republic of Republics like it or not, it may have been God's will that our country evolved as it did.
I have no doubt you are a liberal history revisionist and ask you to reconsider your foolish statements and consider the latter end of all God haters.
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. Psalm 9:17
This is what I see happening to America because of it's foolish return to pagan secular humanism. You have but to study Eupope and Canada to understand the end of western civilizion.
perhaps you should preface all your fact-FREE posts with, "in my IGNORANT & UNKNOWING opinion".
lincoln was a hero of the south in precisely the same way that hitler was a great hero of France!
free dixie,sw
let's see you PROVE that NONSENSE, from TAX RECORDS, which is where you find the REAL ownership data.
census figures in the 18th/19th centuries were fatally flawed. for example the 1860 census stated that NOBODY lived on the west bank of the Trinity River. (have you ever heard of DALLAS????? rotflmRao!)
free dixie,sw
the flag of the CSA is the flag of LIBERTY (you should note that the flag of FREEDOM that was flown PROUDLY by the formerly enslaved folks of East Germany on the night that "the Berlin Wall" fell was the CSA battleflag! if GERMANS can figure that TRUTH out, why can't EVERY American????) & the WBTS was REALLY fought over whether the citizens of dixie could have our own FREE REPUBLIC.
free dixie,sw
it's easier & "comforting" to believe that the Union Army was on a "crusade to free the slaves", even when the most cursory examination of the ORIGONAL documents proves that to be FALSE.
free dixie,sw
free dixie,sw
Hello sw!
Thank you for the correction. :)
what should make the citizens of DAMNyankeeland UNCOMFORTABLE is that the dead included VASTLY disporporunate numbers of Asians,Blacks (including MANY slaves!),Indians,Jews,Latinos,"recent immigrants","mixed-bloods" (like ME for instance), Roman Catholics & "the poorest of the poor whites".
the ELITES, both north & south mostly ESCAPED the carnage of the WBTS.
free dixie,sw
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