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To: naturalman1975

A coople of points on Nz and ANZUS.

Firstly, is New Zealand out of the treaty. As a Kiwi, I know the US "booted" us out, however my understanding is that the New Zealand - Australia part of the treaty is still in effect (as is Australia - US). Is this correct?

Secondly, if NZ invoked ANZUS as did Australia following 9/11 it may indicate that NZ still considers itself in the treaty with respect to attacks on the US. If this was the case, it's a matter of NZ trying to get back in fully with the US.

Finally, I can't see NZ giving up the anti-nuclear policy, however the question is do they have a point (I'm a Kiwi living in Australia, so I do kinda see the NZ point). Should a treaty require all parties to accept everything from all other parties to the treaty? Put it this way - If France (as a NATO member) decided to visit the US with a nuclear armed vessel (or the like), would the US have any rigth to object?


5 posted on 11/28/2005 2:48:25 AM PST by BFPRufus
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To: BFPRufus

Gidday BFPRufus. If you don't mind, I'll have a crack at answering your questions.

In practice, the situation is a bit murky. After NZ refused nuclear powered and armed ship visits, the US suspended its Anzus security obligations to NZ. This hasn't stopped NZ servicemen participating in US-led operations in the Persian Gulf and Afghanistan, or in Aussie-led operations in East Timor. The US has banned NZ from many training exercises - the Americans make exemptions case by case. The intelligence sharing side of things has apparently been little affected. NZ has not withdrawn from Anzus - I think a withdrawal would have to be formally lodged with Australia, from memory.

Regarding the total Anzus situation, the Australia-US leg is obviously closer than ever. In fact, it could be argued that NZ's effective withdrawal (which is more or less what it was) had benefits for the US-Aussie relationship.

NZ and Australia have a Closer Defence Relationship agreement.

As far as I'm aware, NZ did not invoke Anzus after 9/11. However, it has sent special forces to Afghanistan. They are now home while they refit and retrain and do all the things that military units do to stay in peak shape. NZ still has a Provincial Reconstruction Team in Bamian province - interestingly, led by a Muslim officer (A Kiwi who converted).

As for your final point, the US or any country is perfectly within its rights to reject ship visits. No one is disputing NZ's right to do so, just whether it's sensible or in the long-term interests of either NZ or the US.

IMHO, Naturalman's post sets out the position very well. Strewth, an Aussie who isn't one-eyed!


6 posted on 11/28/2005 7:38:29 PM PST by Aneirin
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