War on drugs hits new low

The Austin Chronicle ^ | NOVEMBER 25, 2005 | JORDAN SMITH

[Stew Padasso]

"The first person who invokes the Nazis in an argument has just lost the argument."

To a certain degree, yes. At the same time, some ppl mirror the train of thought of a Nazi more than actually looking like and prancing around in a uniform.

Yeah, today's government goons are not running a death camp and making skin lampshades, but they sure come off as an "old time" German socialist would.

[coloradan]

Negligent homicide is malum in se. That does not make pot malum in se any more than it makes alcohol malum in se.

[DB]

Interesting. But there are different types of glaucoma. For some it causes severe pain to the point that they cannot function. Sufferers claim that marijuana gives them relief. And most of these people are people that would not otherwise ever considering using marijuana. There are other drugs that help significantly with the blood flow and the pressure issues. Those don't necessarily make the pain go away.

Just for the record, I have glaucoma. Fortunately for me, so far anyway, it is controlled with conventional treatment (Lumigan eye drops). I have no pain from it. I've had episodes of complete but temporary blindness in one eye or the other. That is how I found out I had it... When sleeping the slightest pressure on the eye would cut off the blood flow... A bad way to wake up... I did have some pain before treatment but I thought it was just eye strain.

With treatment all detectable symptoms have gone. My eye pressure is still higher than normal but not damaging.

[Stew Padasso]

IOW - a hyperactive control freak on a petty power trip.

[philman_36]

I don't want to get too deeply into this here.
Not all Christians are literalist fundamentalists.
Not all Christians are evolutionsists either.
Believe as you will then as all men must work out their own salvation.

[Oztrich Boy]

God created THC in the pot plant as an insecticide--the chemical kills bugs that eat the plant.

Strange action for a Deity with "An Inordinate Fondness for Beetles"

[JTN]

Not all Christians are evolutionsists either.

Too true. The church I attended while growing up was quite fundamentalist on the subject.

[robertpaulsen]

As you say, there are other drugs. Why someone would take a chance with their vision by using marijuana is beyond me.

"Neither smoked marijuana nor THC are viable approaches in the treatment of glaucoma."
-- American Medical Association, Report of the Council on Scientific Affairs, 10-1-97, Conclusions

"The dose of marijuana necessary to produce a clinically relevant effect in the short term appears to produce an unacceptable level of undesirable side effects such as euphoria, systemic hypotension, and/or dry eye and conjunctival hyperemia in the majority of glaucoma patients in whom the drug has been carefully studied."
-- National Institutes of Health Report, page 12

"Presently, there is no scientifically verifiable evidence that marijuana or its derivatives are safe and effective in the treatment of glaucoma. The availability of a wide variety of alternative treatments that do not have marijuana's psychoactive and other specific side effects argues against the use of marijuana for treating glaucoma. Marijuana offers no advantage over currently available glaucoma drugs and indeed may be less effective than these agents."
-- The National Eye Institute, Fact Sheet on the Therapeutic Use of Marijuana for Glaucoma

Finding - "The American Academy of Ophthalmology Committee on Drugs presently finds no scientifically verifiable evidence that the use of marijuana is safe and effective in the treatment of glaucoma."

[DB]

I should add the only people I've heard of taking marijuana for glaucoma were not trying to control eye pressure. They were trying to control pain so they could function. They had already tried everything the medical profession could offer.

The bottom line is, if it works for them, I'm not going to stop them.

[torchthemummy]

Decriminalize (more politically viable ) but otherwise "Ditto".

[darkangel82]

A fascist in the sense of attributing powers to the Federal Government those that are given to the states. But statist is more accurate a description, IMO.

I agree, there are too many statists on FR.

[brazzaville]

Good morning.
"Yeah, life's a bitch when you commit a major felony and then flee the United States to avoid paying for your massively criminal behavior"

I've read that over use of hyperbole to prove a point generally means the user hasn't a clue as to what they are talking about and knows it.

Thanks for confirming it.

Michael Frazier

[AndyJackson]

But Man is not born good; he is fundamentally evil, and needs society and law to live a decent life.

Well, that settles that argument. You are self-inflated tyrannical little s&I$ who is trying to play god for the rest of us. If your own life is a mess don't go crapping on everyone else's.

[The Raven]

As a Libetarian, I still wrestle with the drug position.

I have no problem disagreeing with the way the Federal government danced around the Constituion to create drug laws, but I also have no problem banning hard drugs.

In a perfect world without statism - my freedoms are still limited (I can't murder my boss) and I can't force others to do my bidding and visa versa.

The individual's freedom is sacrificed by the drug user when he drives a car or requires public funds for survival or treatment.

I can therefore justify drug laws by putting them into the crime category - in other words.....if you use drugs - OK - but if you step on the toes of others - it's a crime. How's that for a compromise?

"A social system is a code of laws which men observe in order to live together. Such a code must have a basic principle, a starting point, or it cannot be devised. The starting point is the question: Is the power of society limited or unlimited?

"Individualism answers: The power of society is limited by the inalienable, individual rights of man. Society may make only such laws as do not violate these rights.

"Collectivism answers: The power of society is unlimited. Society may make any laws it wishes, and force them upon anyone in any manner it wishes."

-- Ayn Rand, Textbook of Americanism"

[robertpaulsen]

"The bottom line is, if it works for them, I'm not going to stop them."

Me neither.

Another thing I won't do is vote for marijuana legalization for any purpose.

[Wuli]

Yes, if you conditions that will produce chronic excruciating pain for the rest of your life, and you've got the political clout of major drug companies behind you, then you can take their massively addictive pain killers for the rest of your life - at their obscene prices, or you can be charged with a "major felony" for your "massively criminal behavior" of actually taking care of yourself.

The "massive" majority of people in prison due to the war on drugs are not the leaders of the cartels, not their wholesalers, not their distributors and not their sellers, but they are the victims of the pushers, the addicts who, tyring to save a few bucks on their addiction will buy more than the legally mandated "possession" quantity and then get a second conviction for selling added to their conviction for possession.

The war on drugs has produced nohting better than what came from the war on liquor - prohibition.

The US had a major opium/heroine epidemic from the late 1800s to the early 1900s. It was essentially wiped out, with massive education, public relations and civic affairs programs, both in the schools and to the general public, and with treatment for addicts - not massive arrests. It was after that epidemic was nearly wiped out that drug control laws began to be enacted; as if they would solve an issue that was already being resolved.

[Sam Cree]

"I agree, there are too many statists on FR."

Yes. Many, though not all, are very nice people too, and well intentioned. But, as Daniel Webster famously said:

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."

[JTN]

The individual's freedom is sacrificed by the drug user when he drives a car or requires public funds for survival or treatment.

You might not have had time to read the whole thread yet, but I posted this link earlier - DUI Marijuana: Does Marijuana Impair Driving? Also, very few drug users are ever going to require any public money for survival or treatment. It happens, but it's relatively rare.

I can therefore justify drug laws by putting them into the crime category - in other words.....if you use drugs - OK - but if you step on the toes of others - it's a crime. How's that for a compromise?

You've pretty much staked out the libertarian position here. Or I should say, the libertarian position is that drug use cannot be used as a defense.