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Justice Rubinstein: U.S. should free convicted spy Pollard
http://www.haaretz.com/ ^ | Jack

Posted on 11/10/2005 2:22:43 PM PST by zyaakov

Justice Rubinstein: U.S. should free convicted spy Pollard

By Yuval Yoaz, Haaretz Correspondent

High Court Justice Eliyakim Rubinstein on Thursday made a rare politically tainted comment when saying that the United States should release Jonathan Pollard, who has been jailed for almost 20 years following his conviction for spying for Israel.

"It is time the U.S. Administration free Jonathan Pollard," Rubinstein said. "20 years is more than enough time to serve in prison and I believe that the U.S. should pardon him."

Rubinstein was speaking during the opening panel of the annual conference of the International Association of Jewish Lawyers and Jurists in Eilat. During a debate on the global struggle against anti-Semitism, Rubinstein was asked if he considered Pollard?s imprisonment as an act of anti-Semitism.

In response, the justice urged the U.S. to free Pollard, saying that "he committed an error, Israel committed a grave error, but it's time for his release. I hope Israel continues appealing to the United States on the matter, but I don't think the High Court has anything to do in the matter. The bottom line is that he must be released."

Rubinstein's comment might prove to be problematic as the High Court is slated to hand rulings on two petitions by Pollard and his family over his imprisonment, including a request to recognize him as a Prisoner of Zion

(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: justice
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To: papertyger

The one in question came out of this meeting. The President is President Reagan.


Remarks of the President and Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir of Israel Following Their Meetings

November 29, 1983
The President. We have held 2 days of intensive talks with Prime Minister Shamir and his colleagues, covering a broad range of subjects including political, military cooperation, Lebanon, Israel's economic situation, and the pursuit of the Middle East peace process. And these discussions, as could be expected between close friends and allies, have been very productive. We reconfirmed the longstanding bonds of the friendship and cooperation between our two countries and expressed our determination to strengthen and develop them in the cause of our mutual interests.

We have agreed on the need to increase our cooperation in areas where our interests coincide, particularly in the political and military area. And I am pleased to announce that we have agreed to establish a joint political-military group to examine ways in which we can enhance U.S.-Israeli cooperation. This group will give priority attention to the threat to our mutual interest posed by increased Soviet involvement in the Middle East. Among the specific areas to be considered are combined planning, joint exercises, and requirements for prepositioning of U.S. equipment in Israel.

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1983/112983b.htm


181 posted on 11/11/2005 2:37:16 PM PST by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: papertyger

"Thank you. I appreciate the clarification, and I don't doubt its validity, but Olsen refers to it as a treaty."

If Olsen really thinks that an MOU is a treaty, then it's a good thing he's the FORMER Solicitor General.


182 posted on 11/11/2005 2:39:17 PM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (MORE COWBELL! MORE COWBELL! (CLANK-CLANK-CLANK))
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To: papertyger

"You want me to quote you chapter and verse of an oft refered treaty, the existence of which is disputed by no one but you, and all you can give me is a title from the eighties? Not even an author?"

Treaties, like other elements of United States law, are available online.

Books, for the most part, aren't. As for the author info, it was written by Norman Polmar and Thomas B. Allen.


183 posted on 11/11/2005 2:41:24 PM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (MORE COWBELL! MORE COWBELL! (CLANK-CLANK-CLANK))
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To: Sabramerican

"You would think as payback, IF SUCH A THING HAD EVER HAPPENED, some Arabist and anti Semitic elements in Russia would release some evidence that Israel had helped the Soviets during the cold war."

Unless, of course, there is still some under-the-table collaboration going on, in which case it would be classified on both ends.

Politics is the mother of strange bedfellows.


184 posted on 11/11/2005 2:42:36 PM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (MORE COWBELL! MORE COWBELL! (CLANK-CLANK-CLANK))
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

It would fit the dictionary definition of a treaty.

But you just want to nit pick and not get off your ingrained opinion no matter what contrary evidence is provided.


185 posted on 11/11/2005 2:44:57 PM PST by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: ozdragon
Why were the Walkers given lighter sentences when they commited the same offence?

Why werent they all executed is a better question. Presumably the Walkers briefed the FBI on what secrets they sold to the Soviets in return for leniencey. Dont know if Pollard ever did so. He certainly never showed any sign of remorse other than over getting caught.

Im troubled by your comment "they committed the same offence". From what I recall about the case, Pollard's betrayal resulted in a greater loss to the US than anything any other spy had ever been able to accomplish. That may also be reason why he got a longer term. Then it could be that Bush 41 wanted to make sure that Israel got the message that we werent going to turn a blind eye to them selling our top secrets to the Soviets.

186 posted on 11/11/2005 2:45:29 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Sabramerican

"It would fit the dictionary definition of a treaty."

But not the Constitution's definition, which is the one that rules here.

"But you just want to nit pick and not get off your ingrained opinion no matter what contrary evidence is provided."

Pollard handed over an incredible amount of classified material, most of which was of little use to Israel, but of great interest to the Soviet Union.

But I'm supposed to ignore all of that, lest certain folks start dropping sly hints of anti-Semitism.

I'll come right out and ask the question you're leading me to:

Is your primary loyalty to the United States of America, or to Israel?


187 posted on 11/11/2005 2:52:53 PM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (MORE COWBELL! MORE COWBELL! (CLANK-CLANK-CLANK))
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
Treaties, like other elements of United States law, are available online.

Books, for the most part, aren't. As for the author info, it was written by Norman Polmar and Thomas B. Allen.

No, but you know damned well nearly anything worthy of peer-review from any particular book is.

Why all this 'special pleading'?

188 posted on 11/11/2005 2:57:41 PM PST by papertyger
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To: bvw
Pollard meant no harm to the US, he acted to save Isreal, Israel acted to save Jews in the USSR. That the young soldier was Jewish is the most significant part of my posting, and Mr. Lucky's denial of that key fact is ignoble on his part.

Since as you say Pollard meant no harm then he shouldnt mind paying for his "mistake" in causing harm to his country. And as far as Mr Lucky I could give a shit what ethnicity he was. Are you holding him out as a sacrifical lamb to cover Pollards sins? Cheap stunt. Since it was the Israeli government that screwed us over how about we get leaders of the top Israeli political parties to serve out Pollards sentence for him locked in the same cell together. Or perhaps you feel strongly enough to take his spot?

189 posted on 11/11/2005 2:57:46 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Sabramerican
An entire mythology has grown around Pollard. I wonder why.

So now the US government is filled up with a bunch of anti-semites like Secretary Weinberger...oops that dont work does it?

190 posted on 11/11/2005 3:00:37 PM PST by Dave S
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

You had asked above if I was implying anything about you. I replied that I didn't know you.

Now I do.


191 posted on 11/11/2005 3:01:26 PM PST by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: papertyger

"Why all this 'special pleading'?"

You tell me--I'm the one favoring treating Pollard like the disloyal, oath-breaching scumbag he is. You're part of the Pollard fan club.

Is your primary loyalty to the United States, or to Israel?


192 posted on 11/11/2005 3:02:39 PM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (MORE COWBELL! MORE COWBELL! (CLANK-CLANK-CLANK))
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To: Sabramerican

"You had asked above if I was implying anything about you. I replied that I didn't know you."

You throw out the allegation as a debating tactic. That's known as "ad hominem."

"Now I do."

You don't know jack-s*** about me. I'm one of the few people on this forum who stood up for Jewish cadets at the Air Force Academy.

But I thank you for answering my question about which country claims your true loyalty.


193 posted on 11/11/2005 3:05:13 PM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (MORE COWBELL! MORE COWBELL! (CLANK-CLANK-CLANK))
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To: Sabramerican
If true why does Weinberger now call the Pollard matter minor?

Who says he does besides you revisionist zionists? Last time I heard him talk on the case he was adamanant that Pollard had caused irreparable damage and that was back when Pollard tried to get a pardon from Clinton.

194 posted on 11/11/2005 3:07:01 PM PST by Dave S
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
I'll come right out and ask the question you're leading me to:

Is your primary loyalty to the United States of America, or to Israel?

My primary loyalty is to the United States.

Now you answer my question:
What does your question have to do with investigating suspicions of bureaucratic abuse?

195 posted on 11/11/2005 3:09:47 PM PST by papertyger
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To: papertyger

"My primary loyalty is to the United States."

Gee, it sure doesn't look like it.

"What does your question have to do with investigating suspicions of bureaucratic abuse?"

Oh, is THAT the latest Pollard defense spin? He wasn't actually SPYING, he was just "investigating suspicions of bureaucratic abuse?"

Pollard's the only guy making that claim. It's an excuse. Excuses are like rectal orifices; everyone has one, but they all stink.


196 posted on 11/11/2005 3:12:07 PM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (MORE COWBELL! MORE COWBELL! (CLANK-CLANK-CLANK))
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
You tell me--I'm the one favoring treating Pollard like the disloyal, oath-breaching scumbag he is.

No, you are advocating more punishment than he got.

Why?

Furthermore, you've shown a pronounced tendency to ignore or disdain anything exculpatory.

Why?

In my book, you are exact inverse of what you accuse Pollard skeptics of being.

197 posted on 11/11/2005 3:26:04 PM PST by papertyger
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
Gee, it sure doesn't look like it.

Sure it does. You just can't tell the difference between what you want, and the interests of the United States. It's actually a pretty common fault, though it's usually restricted to liberals and children.

Oh, is THAT the latest Pollard defense spin? He wasn't actually SPYING, he was just "investigating suspicions of bureaucratic abuse?"

Get your head out of your 'excuse'. Nobody said he wasn't spying.

From what I've seen there is credible reason to believe Pollard is being singled out for treatment that falls outside the norm for his crime. I'd like to know why, and the desire to know why is not an act of disloyalty.

I do question the motives and loyalty of those who don't want those questions asked, though.

I don't cotton to cops that answer "what do you have to hide" when I ask why they want to search my car, either.

198 posted on 11/11/2005 3:50:43 PM PST by papertyger
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Comment #199 Removed by Moderator

To: Stingy Dog
I do have CIA certification, but I don't work for the CIA agency.

So how DID those guys screw up the economic output estimate of the Soviet Union for thirtyfive years?

200 posted on 11/11/2005 4:08:20 PM PST by papertyger
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