Shaped from clay [origin of life]

Nature Magazine ^ | 03 November 2005 | Philip Ball

[metmom]

You younguns will just have to wait to enjoy all the fun benefits of hitting 60...oh, wait...what were those benefits again?

Well, it sure isn't the failing eyesight or aching muscles and joints or the memory lapses when you forget the name of the person you're talking to when you've known them for years or...

[furball4paws]

"If fitness is correlated with survival and reproduction, then how can it not apply to individuals. It seems to me, this would be it's primary concern. "

A simple thought experiment: If you are the fittest possum ever and you choose to cross the highway during rush hour - what are you? ROADKILL

But if there's a subpopulation just like you, eventually all possums will be like you.

Sweet Dreams :-)

[csense]

I don't explain homosexuality. I've seen attempts to explain homosexuality through evolutionary mechanisms, but since nobody has shown with any certainty what exactly homosexuality is, I think it's really just conjecture.

Well, how on earth can I argue with someone who won't even acknowledge it's existence.

Maybe someday soon we'll know. But there are lots of cases where people don't pass on their genes -- suicides, for instance. And yet selection is still at work.

And doesn't that give you pause for thought.

If natural selection can accommodate any outcome: survival, perishment, reproduction, reproductive stasis...then in what way is it useful (let alone practical for a scientific theory) if it is not falsifiable.

[metmom]

I did see the correction reading through the posts and thanks for the link.

[Alter Kaker]

Well, how on earth can I argue with someone who won't even acknowledge it's existence.

Homosexuality exists, but what exactly is it? What is the precise trigger that determines sexual attraction? You don't know, I don't know, and until we know, it is impossible to say with certainty how and why it exists.

And doesn't that give you pause for thought.

No. The genes of individuals who for whatever reason do not reproduce are not passed on to subsequent generations. So on the contrary, that's classic selection. If every individual reproduced succesfully, there would be no selection and then, indeed, evolutionary theory would be invalidated.

[csense]

A simple thought experiment: If you are the fittest possum ever and you choose to cross the highway during rush hour - what are you? ROADKILL

But if there's a subpopulation just like you, eventually all possums will be like you.

Sweet Dreams :-)

I see, so natural selection doesn't make sense if an individual possum wonders in the road and gets squashed, but it does if all the possums wonder in the road and get squashed, regardless if they did it individually or not...

I get it now...I think.

Sweet Dreams :-)

Easy for you to say. What if I have nightmares...oh wait, that's right, I'm an individual so it wouldn't count....never mind.

[csense]

Homosexuality exists, but what exactly is it? What is the precise trigger that determines sexual attraction? You don't know, I don't know, and until we know, it is impossible to say with certainty how and why it exist.

You're free to speculate about such things, but they're simply irrelevant to the argument at hand. Correlated with reproduction, I think the terms are quite clear.

No. The genes of individuals who for whatever reason do not reproduce are not passed on to subsequent generations. So on the contrary, that's classic selection. If every individual reproduced succesfully, there would be no selection and then, indeed, evolutionary theory would be invalidated.

let me see if I understand you correctly. If those in a given population, who can reproduce, do reproduce...then evolution would be falsified?

[Alter Kaker]

If those in a given population, who can reproduce, do reproduce...then evolution would be falsified?

Not quite. If every individual in a generation passed on its genes, then that would falsify a substantial part of evolutionary theory. It would not falsify evolution.

[Alter Kaker]

Population, of course, not generation.

[Dimensio]

Well, I obviously disagree.

Why? Please provide an explanation based in genetics that supports your assertion. Every time I hear this line of reasoning from a creationist I have to wonder if they even are aware of concepts as basic as "recessive genes".

And does this line of reasoning mean that you accept that homosexuality is purely genetic?

[RunningWolf]

But.., but.., wait? what about the cold soup, the bio matter on comets? Seti?

Who care what the evos say, lets quit paying for them with our tax$ and get them the H* out elementary schools.
If an adult wants to spend HIS $$ on it okay.

Wolf

[willyd]

If this theory is true then there should be plenty of real life samples that scientists can collect from the clay based soil surrounding any of the volcanic fissures on the planet today....hooray...the mystery is solved by science...when a scientist provides an actual example i will be convinced...in the mean time i will hold my breath...just tell them to hand the sample to the blue faced guy in the corner when it is ready.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"If this theory is true then there should be plenty of real life samples that scientists can collect from the clay based soil surrounding any of the volcanic fissures on the planet today."

No, there shouldn't be. The conditions on the Earth now are not like the conditions on the Earth 4 billion years ago. The biggest difference? Today there are already organisms ready to devour any organic matter that forms. In order for life to arise now, it would have to do so in a place where no other life exists, and where no other life has already filled in that ecological niche. Such a place no longer exists; life is pretty much everywhere that it can be on the Earth right now. The period of biogenesis on the Earth would be necessarily self-limited in length.

[PatrickHenry]

The Murder of the Century case was probably that of Harry Thaw ...

From now on, everything I do that I haven't done for the past 5 years is going to be "the ___ of the century!"

[willyd]

sounds good, but there are a few problems with your statement...one...if there are organisms today that are ready to devour any organic matter that forms, by your own admission there are organisms today that rely at least in part on this organic matter...ie....it still is being produced. your argument that early clay life cannot exist because it was at the bottom of the food chain doesn't hold water either...following your logic, there would be no examples of simple life forms available today because bigger...more evolved predators would have eaten them all. Also, if all the proteins that existed back then ate all of the complex clay molecules, how did they survive after that?

[Elsie]

AND WE THINK YOU GUYS HAVE mAXWELL'S!




CAPSlock key for sale

Used only invertedly.

[Elsie]

 

Non-breeders may be useful.

 

(But they drone on so much.......)

 

---

 

NIV 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
 9.  Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
 10.  nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 11.  And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

 

NIV Romans 12:2
 2.  Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

 

 

NIV 2 Corinthians 5:17-20
 17.  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
 18.  All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
 19.  that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
 20.  We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

[Elsie]

Note that Howard Phillips used the same phrase in an article....

(I'll bet that they all share many of the same DNA sequences. ;^)

[Elsie]

That is those people who refuse to listen to proper teaching authority.

Proper credentials ARE a requirement, it seems.

[Elsie]

Then ya gotta walk a mile....