Posted on 10/28/2005 3:00:35 PM PDT by Fair Go
"...there is no other country in the world where America and Americans are loved and respected as much as in Canada..."
That's a very nice thing to say, and the feelings run both ways. You might not be able to tell from the writings on this board, but an American could have no better neighbor then a Canadian.
No, not quite. Just search the posts about Americans on Globe and Mail (which is touted as their conservative paper), and you will understand that Canada's swing voters view the United States through the Michael Moore angel.
For those who really like Americans, I can think of Australians, but definitely NOT Canucks.
In 1945, George Orwell wrote that those who are "jealous of the wealth and power of America" should at least admit such feelings in order to "prevent them from contaminating [their] mental processes."
Methinks that is what has happened to Canada. However, since 9/11 it has become something very ugly.
"The" Canadians never stopped disliking us = never started disliking us.
What is "the" Canadians anyway? What are "the" Americans? Give or take a few percent, we're split down the middle here in the US. Region by region we differ, so do the Canadians. This whole generalizing talk is just BS.
WOW!! Sounds like World War 3. Sensitive bunch those Canadians.
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Australians have always enjoyed taking pot shots at Kiwi sensibilities. The sniping over Ansett is nothing new, writes Padraic P. McGuinness:
So poor little New Zealand is suffering from Kiwi-bashing, is it? Complaints about Australia's nasty bullying tendencies towards New Zealand have always been around. As a former NZ high commissioner to Australia, Laurie Francis, used to say plaintively: "Don't clobber yer cobber." But is it really true?
...
What many Australians neither know nor care about is how sensitive some Kiwis are about criticism or, especially, ridicule. There are plenty of Kiwi jokes about, many of them involving sheep - to a suggestion in a light-hearted conversation about trans-Tasman relations that one day the NZ army might be a formidable force, the response was: "You mean a flock of sheep in wolves' clothing?"
Like some humourless Irish diplomats responding to Irish jokes, Kiwis are so easy to wind up that it is irresistible.
The reality is that Australians find New Zealanders far too like themselves to be really interesting. Australians can pick the differences of accent (I am always charmed when a Kiwi friend addresses me as "Peddy") but others cannot. We make jokes about them in the same way we make jokes about Tasmanians. They are so like us that tiny differences or alleged quirks are seized upon, or rather, invented, just to make them more interesting. So as well as the supposed affection of the Kiwi male for his sheep, there is an allegedly high incidence of cleft palates (or even two-headedness) in Tasmania on account of inbreeding. Pure nonsense all round, of course, but it survives only because the butt of the joke gets irritated. The differences between the populations of Australia and New Zealand are about as different as those between Sydney and Melbourne.
That comparison does point to an interesting difference. There is a harder edge, a tougher minded approach to many issues in Sydney compared with Melbourne. There you tend to get more of the politics of the warm inner glow, along with pretensions to intellectual, cultural and moral superiority. Typically, the Fabian Society - wishy-washy socialism for idealistic and ineffectual intellectuals - flourishes there while it never did in Sydney. There is a similar difference between Sydney and New Zealand. Wellington is rather like a Canberra recruited entirely from the ranks of Melbourne school teachers. Not surprisingly, the NZ economy is in trouble when such people are in government.
There are real differences cross-Tasman, of course. The ethnic origins have always been rather different, with Catholic Irish much more heavily represented in Australia. We had a higher intake of non-English-speaking-background European migrants over the past 50 years. And the Maoris (and, increasingly, Pacific Islanders) are a much more significant proportion of the population than are Aborigines (however defined) here.
The do-gooders in New Zealand are, as in Melbourne, much more determined to get things wrong so they will feel good inside than are the majority of Australians, so they have set up disastrous institutions like the Waitangi Tribunal which fritter money away on compensation for past wrongs in such a way as to make the present day situation even worse. They are still strongly affected by old-fashioned pacifism, so they think that they need not spend money on their own defence. Traditional hardware may indeed not be the answer but, as recent events have demonstrated, spending on intelligence and counter-terrorism is likely to be the key to national security in the future.
...
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Substitute Wellington with Ottawa, New Zealand with Canada, Kiwis with Canucks, and interchange Australia with the US and Australians/Americans, we get a pretty decent mocking of Canada as well. The only difference is to see that Canada has about the same proportion of "founding white peoples" (British/Irish and French) as the British/Irish descent Australians, but there seem to be fewer Irish descent Canadians than Irish-descent Australians. I have noticed that the more purely British stock probably made Canada more fond of High Tory paternalism.
To the Canadians who feel slighted by the "insults", sorry mate but we don't care whether you like it or not. Facts are facts LOL.
Don't know if you have heard of a very famous cricket match between Australia and New Zealand. It was a one day match and there was one ball to go. The Kiwis only had to hit a 6 to win. So what did the rotten Aussies do? They bowled the last ball underarm. Piggy Muldoon was NZ Prime Minister at the time and he said it was appropriate that the Aussie team wore yellow. Unlike the Canadians, the Kiwis and Aussies have no pretensions of moral superiority. I wish Roy and HG would take a look at Canada. I am sure they would find some good material.
Roy and HG? Oh yes I remember them. Back during Sydney 2000 it was them who mocked NZ's dismal Olympic performance to the maximal extent. I trust they will find plenty of satire materials.
Canadians can't even tolerate Conan and Triumph the Insult dog and any American TV show that dare to say Canada's national stance is wrong. For instance, in a long-ago episode of the crime series Law and Order, there was an episode about a Canadian woman committed murder of her husband in NYC and fled home. Canada agreed to extradite her but was not operative because the US's New York state has death penalty. The state prosecutor initially agreed not to demand execution but then turned the table as Canada reneged to supply witness evidence. Of course the series protrayed the woman being executed at the end and the prosecutors just shrugged their shoulders in defiance to the Canadian reaction. I remember the episode, which was a fictional TV series, created a mini storm in real-life Canada with lots of Canadians writing letters of protests to the producers and actually threatening to boycott the episode in Canada. And National Review's Jonah Goldberg wrote jokingly calling to bomb Canada to wake it from pretensions to moral superiority. He said later it caused one of the most virulent hate-mail campaigns he had ever faced (and he had faced plenty over the years, but nothing like the hate-filled Canadians). If Roy and HG start mocking Canadians on Channel 7 I can envision Canada will break off diplomatic relations with Canberra and the Australian High Commission in Ottawa will be burned down ;-).
Do you think this is suitable reading in the present forum:
Canadia Sucks
This I can promise you: bearded women lying on their backs and pulling their anuses open is as low as I go.
-- Mr. Bad
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Canadia is the proper spelling for a country where the people call themselves "Canadians". If the country's name was spelled "Canada," then the people there would call themselves "Canadans." Since they call themselves "Canadians", it's only reasonable to spell the name of their country "Canadia." After all, people from Germany don't call themselves "Germanians" do they?
For those of you who went to public school in the U.S. and haven't heard of Canadia before, it's a small, third-world country just north of the United States. Once you learn to understand their peculiar dialect of English, it's not too hard to converse with Canadian natives.
Canadia is a poor and sparsely-populated country where up to 98% of the citizens are alcoholics. Most Canadian citizens have government jobs where they are paid to say "Eh?" all day long.
"the first thing a visitor is struck by the province is the attachment to the Mother Country. Names like Windsor, London, Kingston, Peterborough, Essex, Woodbridge and Cornwall all testify to the breadth and extent of Loyalist influence upon English Canada. Ontario is one of two provinces that has retained the old Canadian Red Ensign Flag with the provincial coat of arms in the fly along with the Union Jack in the upper left quadrant. Canada may not be a part of the British Empire any more and it may have repatriated the Constitution but it still refuses to form a positive national identity. The failure to do so leaves anti-Americanism as the only "authentic" means of expressing a Canadian sense of self."
I think along a similar line, but I see the attachment of English Canada (read: Ontario) to the Mother Country as a jest against the United States. Back in the days when the sun never set on the British Empire, English Canada supported the Empire due to pride of the Empire's accomplishments and that "We are not like the savage Americans".
When the British Empire was being dismantled in the 1950s/60s this sent a shock wave to English Canada. On one hand, they become resentful to the US's eclipse of Britain's power and making the Empire no more, and on the other hand they realize they can't rely on following Britain to achieve anti-American stance anymore in the age of "special relationships". If you follow Britain it now means you must support Uncle Sam, that breakaway colony! How terrible! At this point, socialism and trans-national pacifism started to acquire anti-American tones. So voila, English Canada now make alliegance to the United Nations and intellectual leftism to fill in the vacuums of British Empire.
And on domestic policy it is even easier. When you have inherited a High Tory belief of paternalism (High Toryism is particular influencial in English Canada, mroe so than Australia and even NZ), adopting socialism is not that hard.
Make no mistake. The animosity that exists between Canada and the US has no parallel when it comes to Australia and New Zealand. There would be national outrage in Australia, and I am sure for that matter in New Zealand, if such animosity was ever expressed. I must be a conservative Aussie as I am a little shocked at some of the exchanges. The web site I posted earlier is probably one of the tamer examples.
Thirty percent of Australians have Irish in their ancestry. Irreverence towards authority is very much part of the Australian tradition. They are far removed from the High Tory tradition.
Jonah Goldberg wrote a great article in National Review a couple of years ago about Canadian wimps...in fact, the cover had four Mounties sitting on their horses whith the word WIMPS in oversized font across the cover. The Canuks got their woolie undies in a large bunch over it. Even Cretien had something to say...when his handlers woke him up and showed him the picture.
I think it is fair to say that Dustin Hoffman could play any Canadian in a movie.
How about this article?
Canadia Revealed: A Brief Guide to a Large Country
2002-05-24 17:53:50
By Tjames Madison
Canadia Sucks
It may be just an opinion, but it's mine.
-- Miss Conduct
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Recently Pigdog has received many letters from readers who are apparently puzzled and upset by our regular coverage of the mysterious nation north of our border, Canadia.
The problem, it seems, isn't so much the strange reports that continually issue forth from that vast, mostly uncharted region, but that such a place exists at all. Apparently most Americans are totally unaware that such a place as "Canadia" even exists!
The common thread that tugs at Pigdog readers, however, is one of deep, unsated curiosity. "I would like to visit Canadia," begins a typical note, "but I am unsure whether or not I would be welcome there. What should I bring? Is it safe to drink the water? Is it true that Canadians use giant stone donuts for currency? Does Berlitz offer a course in Canadish?"
Sensing a Great Need, Pigdog now presents a short field guide to Canadian culture, history and economics in the interest of those Americans brave enough to chance a trip across the border.
History Canadia was first settled by immigrant yak farmers who crossed the Bering Strait land bridge many eons ago. For thousands of years, very little happened in Canadia. Then dynamite was discovered. The French arrived, and appointed a provincial governor to bring order to the loosely organized tribal nations who flourished along the frigid shores of the Hudson Bay. Trade routes were established with Europe, and over time decorative Canadian knick-knacks were found in plentiful supply in curio shops all over Paris. Then the English arrived, and an uneasy co-existence with the French was maintained until the year 1902, when the first indoor plumbing was installed. Today the English and French descendants of the earliest European settlers enjoy many of the modern conveniences we take for granted here in the USA, including electricity and liquid glue.
A communist nation since 1946, Canadia gained self-rule in 1972, in the aftermath of the infamous Maple Leaf Rebellion, when invading Soviet tanks rolled through the streets of Toronto, and were pelted with rocks and garbage by indignant Canadian hockey players. Although technically remaining behind the "Iron Curtain," Canadia, which has been ruled with an iron fist by First Marshall Tito since 1948, did not abandon its totalitarian rule after the collapse of Soviet-style communism in the late 1980s. A fiercely independent (and isolated) nation, Canadians still labor under severe government edicts which greatly restrict their freedoms of speech and right to travel freely.
People and Culture A hardy people of stern, Northern stock, Canadians tend to be deeply suspicious and distrustful by nature, although it is unclear how much this has to do with the severity of the current system of government. Canadians live and work in commune-like "work clusters," and rarely leave the town where they are born for very long, if at all. Although little is known of the interior operations of these clusters, the few Canadians who have escaped to the south tell mysterious -- but unconfirmed -- tales of "giant robot insects" and harsh living conditions in tiny igloos.
A popular misconception regarding Canadian culture is that cannibalism is not only tolerated, but taught in schools as a proper social behavior. Fortunately, this appears to be merely an urban legend. Canadians don't attend schools, for instance, and plentiful sustenance is available to all Canadians in the form of the rich maple syrup which forms in pools in many areas. A popular treat in Canadia is the "Slop Wafer," a bland, doughy cracker-like bread which is coated liberally with the ubiquitous syrup and then consumed at special occasions, like birthday parties, or the annual Festival of the Enormous Moose, which caps the main holiday season in August.
Although most Canadians don't own or have access to television, many citizens are well versed in the antics of American sitcom television characters due to the efforts of village "story speakers," a sort of shamanistic figure who has obtained the use of a television during state-sponsored seminars, and returns to his or her village to pass along the stories to his "comrades". A particular favorite is "Sanford and Son," and it is not uncommon to witness Canadian children "Pulling a Sanford" in public: imitating Fred's hilarious mock heart attacks.
Amplified music is forbidden by the Canadian government; bagpipes and accordians tend to be the most popular musical instruments. Many village pubs feature live polka music, and a lively time is sure to be had by all.
A word of caution: it is considered impolite to shake hands with a Canadian, probably because napkins are outlawed. Such an attempt will generally encounter a stern glance and possibly even a visit from the local constable.
Canadians consume great amounts of alcohol, which they call "hootcho," and typically will insist that a foreigner sit before them and exhange liquids via mouth-to
(continued on page 63)
yaddayadda
Again, it is IMPORTANT not to generalize.
You make it sound like all "Canadians can go on for hours about how much they hate Bush". That statement is BS. Most Canadians don't give a flying flip. They're concerned with earing a living, paying the bills and raising their families and when they do have a few spare moments - hocky and beer.
It would be more accurate to say that a portion those who have considerably more spare time (e.g. intellectuals and media types), spend a lot of time criticizing the Bush administration.
But then, I've been stateside recently visiting my son who now lives in the U.S. and guess what ----- I can't open any newspaper where there aren't anti-Bush Administration articles.. And even more horrifying, I heard many Americans also criticize the war and the Bush administration...
Sowhat does this all say?? Maybe that there are people on both sises of the border who view events differently that you and I.. Is that possible???
Does that mean that both the U.S. and Canada are anti-American or could it be that some people in both countries don't like current U.S. policies?
Is it possible to like America and American people in general, but dislike whatever administration (e.g. Clinton, Carter, et al) happens to occupy the White House?
You probably don't know half of the virulent anti-Americanism in Canada. Go to sites like http://www.vivelecanada.ca (meaning "long live Canada!" in French) and you will see typically Canadian stuff that go on American- and Australian-bashing mode.
And no, it doesn't brand itself as socialist. This is touted as centrist and sometimes even conservative stuff in that country (for real socialist stuff go to http://www.rabble.ca but notice that there is not an inch of difference between these two sites by Australian or even NZ standards).
Roy and HG and plenty of Australian columnists would no doubt find plenty of ammunitions over at the vlc site.
High Toryism runs very deep in English Canadian blood (I'm mainly referring to Ontario when I talk about "English Canada", but also to a great extent in the Maritimes and Manitoba). It may not have notions of class nonsense as back in the Mother Country, but it survives in sneering towards the US, and how the Right readily agrees to paternalistic socialism on domestic matters.
In fact, I suspect the appeal of full-blown leftism in modern-day English Canada is simply the way it is conceived in Canada is a "red" version of traditional High Tory platform.
Baloney.
I suggest you do a search . Start with Kingston Ohio , Windsor Vermont , Woodbridge Connecticut and the flag of Hawaii .
And explain why the values cherished by Americans are exclusively American . Or valued more by Americans than England or the lands which choose to respect England and it's institutions. Which happen to include some of the greatest documents concerning the condition of man ever written . Rights did not begin in 1776 !
It was not Americans who stood firm in the first gas attack in 1915 . It was not Americans who went hand to hand with the Japanese in Hong Kong in 1941 or became the test dummies at Dieppe in '42. Or called down their own artillery fire on their heads while fighting the Chinese in Korea . Or Americans that stood between the Serbs and Croatians in the Medak Pocket in 1993 . It wasn't an American who took the world longest sniper shot in Afghanistan in 2002 . It could have been . But it wasn't .
Canadians got to each of those places and many more like it because of who we are , not in spite of who we are . Get over it! We may not like some things Americans say or do but Anti Americanism has nothing to do with who we are .
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