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To: Unam Sanctam

Uhhhhhh-HUH. Right.

Here's a little hint, from somebody (a) who works with a bunch of folks on these visas, and (b) whose wife used to work for an immigration lawyer...they don't. Employers have creative ways of getting around it.

For example, employers are supposed to "assure" that no American citizens are available in their area for the job in question. Well, where I was working until last year, we had a glut of tech workers due to financial troubles at a local company that had downsized hundreds of people. So my company wrote the job requirements to tailor them EXACTLY to the H-1B applicant they'd already decided they were going to hire. No one else could fit them. They might as well have written "Must be guy named Pradesh Unpronouncable from Bangalore, 5'6", 145 pounds, coming here on a one-year visa."

And as for the whole "prevailing wage" thing...they slip around that too. What my former employer would do was simply list the job a few pay grades lower than if they were hiring an employee to do it. So similar work to what I was doing at "grade 14" for $66k, would be listed on the H-1B paperwork as being done by a "grade 12" at $50k--senior-level stuff, that no $50k American programmer could probably have the experience to do. Now, whether that's what they were paying the visa applicant's contracting company, or whether that's what the guy himself was being paid, I have no idea. But they had to list the salary on the Federal paperwork that was posted in a public area for a period of time before the visa applicant could start work.

I don't have a problem with folks coming here from foreign countries and working; I'd better not, because where I work now is probably 30% Indian with another 10% Oriental (Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese/Chinese), and with very few exceptions they are as professional, as pleasant, as skilled, and as competent as any native-born American. What I do have a problem with is companies bringing these folks in by the thousands while it's hard as hell for citizens to get ANY tech job, even if they're willing to take a pay cut and put up with the crap you have to put up with in this industry.

From a purely economic capitalistic standpoint, yeah, bringing in cheap outsourced labor makes sense for the business owner. But dammit, there comes a point, even in capitalism, where the good of your country and its citizens has GOT to be factored in.

Oh, and by the way...the biggest moneymakers off this whole scam are not the businesses. It's, not surprisingly, LAWYERS. My wife worked in an immigration lawyer's office, and he was paid by the companies, not the immigrants, to deal with the INS (now DHS) and the immense and complex maze of paperwork and BS that had to be done to get somebody to work in this country. It's not easy. Getting a foreigner in here to work is a maze of red tape, a long and difficult process. And the lawyers are making a total killing off of it every step of the way.

}:-)4


35 posted on 10/24/2005 1:00:20 PM PDT by Moose4 (Liberals and vampires: Both like death, both hate crosses, and both are bloodsuckers.)
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To: Moose4
I don't have a problem with folks coming here from foreign countries and working

=======================================================================

Nor do I. That's how the IT "pimps" frame the discussion. Anyone who's against unlimited IT worker immigration wants to either hamstring U.S. companies, or protect their own job because they're "deadwood".

I have worked in shops that were 95% foreign-immigrant (I was routinely the token American, because I had the talent and skills) for most of my 20+ year IT career. Actually, I worked with more Americans in my last job with CSC because they outsourced American jobs (though 90% of all new hires where immigrants).

I have many, close friends who are foreign nationals. They're great people, and I have no problem with the "best and brightest" from other countries getting their opportunity here. What I do have a problem with is the fat profits the American pimp companies make bringing these folks in.

It's all a matter of simple economics. If you bring in a guy from India where $5 a day is "middle class", and he has total freedom to negotiate his own deal, he'll eventually expect the same level of pay as American workers, because he's living in our economy. If the imported supply is truely unlimited, then, yes, supply will overwhelm demand (which was the case from '99 - '04), and all salaries will drop.

However, I'm less concerned with market forces driving salaries down, because the number of "best and brightest" are limited. Plus, the contributions of these individuals will create additional demand, through successful and growing companies.

The problem today with the H1B and other immigrant visa programs is that there's perverse market incentives involved. A company doesn't need to "create" or "product" if they can "buy low" and "sell high". These IT companies are more like junk bond and green mail speculators, than they are IT companies.

And unfortunately, most Senators have an IQ of about 80 in economic matters, and of course, no sense of ethics or the national good at all. They'll whore to the IT companies, buy their simple arguments about "maintaining competition", sell out the American IT worker, and enjoy their campaign contributions and $multi-million, taxpayer-paid lifestyle.

SFS

40 posted on 10/24/2005 1:42:08 PM PDT by Steel and Fire and Stone
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