[moog]

Tenure makes sense in college. A professor doing cutting edge work should not be fired for his academic pursuits. But at the elementary and high school level, it is different. They should be judged on competence and be fired if they fail. There are obvious ones and not so obvious circumstances that have many factors. To be brief, anymore a teacher can be dismissed for just about any little thing. Teachers don't pick who are in their classes. One never knows what one will get from year to year. Yes, good teachers will often do the best with what they get and do wonderful with the kids, but there are so many circumstances outside of school nowadays too. Kids don't go home just to do the chores on the farm anymore. This is something I can go on and on and on about, but I really have left the greater part of it out.

Teachers do have a longer probationary period than a lot of jobs--here it is 3 years. In most jobs here, it is 3-6 months. Even after probation a teacher can be dismissed quite readily--subject to pass-off every three years here too.

[doug from upland]

I have even heard stories about teachers in California telling their students that they can't be fired.

[Old Student]

Here in Oklahoma, a public school teacher's first year is a sort of probation. After that first year, they can apply for certification (for the first year, they call it licensure) good for 5 years. Hiring, however, has little to do with certification or licensure. You have to have one or the other to get hired, but all teachers are on one-year contracts. They have to notify you in April whether your contract will be renewed for the next year, or not. In 2003, in the district I worked in (as a teacher's assistant) 128 people were not renewed due to the budget crunch. I would have been one of them, but I'd already notified my principal that I was quitting to begin daytime classes for my teaching certification.