Posted on 10/15/2005 10:30:55 AM PDT by sageb1
So let me get this straight. You're saying that White may have deliberately called opposing groups to come in? Perhaps anonymously? (I wouldn't put anything past him)
There's KKK in Michigan. I found posts by them when I Googled Mr Szych.
Politically, this guy's been all over "the map". He's definately a loose canon. Actually, all he had to do was get a couple "plants" in there. There were outside agitators. Some could have been his.
There's info on him in the link in post 1015. He's the 2nd report down.
the KKK has marched in Toledo before.
They couldn't have made a big impact as I don't remember. They're sad haters. Unfortunately they live a long time. Look at Byrd. LOL
I still consider the remnants of the KKK, as well as the neo-nazis fringe hate groups with very little support. What bothers me is that as the poltical race-baiters grab more blacks, we will see a backlash in the rise of some of these groups. Unfortunately, the black racist politicians hold much sway with their constituents. They know that they must keep alive the hate and victim status to maintain their own personal power. How do we combat this problem?
correction: "I still consider the remnants of the KKK, as well as the neo-nazis AS fringe hate groups with very little support.
I don't know. Bill Cosby has gotten smeared for telling them this is their fault and no one elses. They're being "sold" a bill of goods and they're buying it. Clarence Thomas, Condi, are great examples of achievement but you get Bellafonte types mouthing idiocy and it's bought into AGAIN. As a people, they are easily manipulated. There are exceptions, I know some, but the "fools" that feed on hate will not listen.
It is so much easier to be a victim. You don't have to be responsible for anything.
I think both parties are to blame. Both the neo-nazis and the organizations who made sure there would be a backlash in the form of a riot. There is some indication from prior posts that it is possible that White may have by anonymous proxy gotten the opposing groups inolved. I have no idea if this is true. But I am worried. I don't give much credence to the white supremacists because there truly are so few of them (so far). But I will warn all that as the black supremicist movement grows, so will the white supremacist grow. That worries me. A lot.
Can we take this off sidebar? I know I posted the original, but I'm concerned that we are pushing a problem that shouldn't be pushed anymore because of its volatility. If anyone has new news they can post it in another thread. Up to you, of course.
The best solution would be for both groups of imbeciles to fight it out in an arena on "pay for view". That will help pay for the damage..
Even Alec Baldwin can stand up and say: "I can have sex with animals if I want to!"
It is a bowel movement, just like Farrakhan's..
Maybe NOI thugs..
They wanted a TV dinner..
Bingo!
There are always limits on freedom, like it or not.
The Nazi (National Socialist) ideology and platform, history teaches us, endangers the public at large. I don't think that we would disagree on that point. It is imminently reasonable to limit freedom of speech when that speech endangers the public in that it condones and promotes violence against a segment of society or society as a whole.
Unlimited freedom of speech not only endangers society but renders many laws rendundant, such as libel and defamation laws.
Simply put, IMHO, there is no such thing as unlimited freedom.
Sageb1, thanks for that link. You wrote:
"I still consider the remnants of the KKK, as well as the neo-nazis fringe hate groups with very little support. What bothers me is that as the poltical race-baiters grab more blacks, we will see a backlash in the rise of some of these groups. Unfortunately, the black racist politicians hold much sway with their constituents. They know that they must keep alive the hate and victim status to maintain their own personal power. How do we combat this problem?" You just had to ask. LOL. I have a few thoughts to offer, taking into account some remarks from that link.
First, these two separate remarks:
"Conservatives are generally so oblivious to (or complacent in the face of) the actual threat posed by the political Left in this country..." and
"...the power of a Left-wing culture, which is vastly underestimated by conservatives, as Heilbrunn’s comments make clear (and Jacob Heilbrunn is one of the most intelligent conservatives writing today). It is true, as Heilbrunn writes, that conservatives take principles and intellectual arguments more seriously than do their counterparts on the Left. That why they can be misled into thinking that intellectual nonsense is self-evident..."
Both remarks, IMHO, are extremely important in the first recognizes 'conservatives' are oblivious or complacent, and the second that 'conservatives' underestimate the power, of the 'left' (I'm using a VERY broad definition of the 'left' one that includes all socialists -those who like eggs OR ribs OR kraut : ) Tie it all up neatly with a pretty bow with the conclusion that conservatives "take principles and intellectual arguments more seriously". The kicker then (as in a fabulous point), to me, is the last of the remarks which says we can be "misled into thinking that intellectual nonsense is self-evident."
Okay, here I go...The word 'misled' is key. I think that is very much a true statement, in many ways, but one observation I might add is that if we were to change 'misled' or add the other words used above: 'oblivious, complacent, underestimate' we could arrive at another level of comprehension. Perhaps if we change 'intellectual nonsense' to also include 'principles' we could raise that bar a little higher yet. We are oblivious, complacent, and underestimate the left's (here, I am NOT speaking of the many socialists, but those who blindly follow) ability to understand that they may perceive and/or confuse what they may see as our intellectual nonsenses that are in fact, principles. Or standards, or ideals. And more, how those principles, standards, or ideals are applied.
I hope I'm making sense, because what I'm about to say might sound really stupid. I believe that the counter-protest in Toledo was handled wrong. But, at some base level, I think that those folks were 'right', yet they (nor even I) can not begin to comprehend why. I cannot keep from picturing in my mind's eye how this particular situation would have been not only acceptable, but lauded, had the counter protesters been dressed in American WWII uniforms. sageb1, I think you might have touched on it in this post you wrote, bothered that this behavior will continue. If it were somehow possible for conservatives to publicly embrace that the actions of the counterprotesters were wrong and but the principles 'they' denounced (at the core was.... idealogically... supremacy) -could we separate this and bring it to a screeching halt right now? The counter protesters would be stunned - the original protesters would be dead in the water.
If I may, there was more from that link that I thought bore tossing around a bit.
IMHO, it is very important when Horowitz says that while we take our principles very seriously and assume they are self-evident to everyone else that is precisely why our 'intellectual nonsense' is therefore 'destined for the political dustbin'. He's right. I once was told I spoke and wrote not to my audience, but above their head, above their level of understanding and that if I was to reach my audience, I needed to be at their level. Duh. Pretty simple. I love Bush but see many examples where the words and phraseology he has chosen are very complex and above the comprehension of many, many people. It's obvious to even a log that the man has principles and, as Horowitz says, that Bush takes them more seriously than did Clinton. What Bush (and we as well) don't expound upon in simple terms is WHY.
Melding into my thoughts is a study I just came across on FR about black/white religious life that shows the black population is inherently more religiously conservative than the white population. The obvious question was, why are there not more black political conservatives?
Horowitz says something very key at this point..
"Is Kerry a liberal? Absolutely. But a hardened Leftist? No way. Kerry isn't interested in ideology, but in his personal advancement."
IMHO there is still a very deeply imbedded fear in much of the black population. The fear of repression. IMHO this fear conquers the full courage needed to follow the real freedoms offered by the ideology of their religious conservatism. The scars of taking one step toward a real (full) freedom are indeed real and are indeed deep.
As Horowitz said, "It would never have occurred me that in opposing Communism America was in fact living up to its ideals."
Incredibly, IMHO, I think that deep, deep, deep in their heart it never occurred to the counter protesters or the rest of America that in opposing these protesters, the counter protesters were in fact living up to America's ideals.
IMHO to blindly assume that any moment of this had any connection to black violence is, at the core, not only shallow but to be dangerously misled. I personally maintain a focus in my life to look beyond the obvious and to always, always search for good in all things. There is a way to turn this sow's ear into a silk purse. It won't be easy. Nothing that really matters ever is. Yes, I am an idealist and a realist, a dreamer, a lover of concord and... a believer that anything is possible. Funny, and coincidentally, doesn't that describe America?
I hope this makes sense. Sometimes I even confuse myself while I'm thinking LOL : ) I am sure that is the root cause for my husband's baldness. LOL!
To a German who had the "pleasure" (sarcasm) to meet some real and convinced criminal nazis from WWII (this is a really sick experience), it is always fun watching those dumb idiots who declare themselves as "nazis".
They probably do not know that Hitler or his vasalles would have gassed all of them since (as Americans) their blood heritage could not be proofed properly and their way to stand in for their "values" is usually quite pathologic to the majority of people. This is the reason that guys like them were transferred into the KZs as "Assoziale" and were being killed like all others there.
Anyway - anybody who is attracted to this kind of BS must be ill.
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