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Spider Blood Found in 20 Million Year Old Fossil
Science Daily ^ | 9/30/2005 | News Release : University of Manchester

Posted on 10/12/2005 2:56:22 PM PDT by SirLinksalot

Spider Blood Found In 20 Million Year Old Fossil

A scientist from the University of Manchester has discovered the first identified droplets of spider blood in a piece of amber up to 20 million years old.

Two droplets of blood, technically known as haemolymph, have been preserved in the amber which also contains the spider -- Filistatidae -- a family commonly found in South America and the Caribbean.

The droplets are the first identified examples of spider blood ever found in an amber fossil. It is possible the blood could be used to extract DNA.

The fossil, which is 4cm long and 2cm wide, was discovered in the Dominican Republic and dates back to the Miocene period.

Palaeontologist Dr David Penney, of the School of Earth, Atmospheric and Environmental Sciences, has now used the blood droplets to trace how, when, and where the spider died all those years ago.

David, said: "It's amazing to think that a single piece of amber with a single spider in it can open up window into what was going on 20 million years ago.

"By analysing the position of the spider's body in relation to the droplets of blood in the amber we are able to determine how it died, which direction it was travelling in and even how fast it was moving."

In the latest issue of the journal Palaeontology (2005, vol. 48, part 5) David describes how the spider died. He believes the spider was climbing up a tree when it was struck head-on by a sudden strong flow of resin. The spider then became engulfed in the resin and died.

He argues that the shape and position of the blood droplets reveals which direction the spider was travelling in. It also reveals which of the spider's legs broke first.

David discovered the fossil in 2003 during a visit to the Museo del Ambar Dominicano in Puerto Plata, Dominican Republic. His research initially focused on the spider which he identified as an entirely new species of spider. On his return to the UK, further research revealed the droplets of blood and the information the fossil contained.

-------------------------------------------------------

This story has been adapted from a news release issued by University of Manchester.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Unclassified
KEYWORDS: crevolist; fossil; spiderblood
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The date comes from the Miocene deposits in which the amber was found in the Dominican Republic. Those deposits rank at 20 million years according to the evolutionary dating scheme.

How do you know this spider is 20 million years old?

Answer: it was found in a 20-million-year-old rock.

How do you know the rocks are 20 million years old?

Answer: because, it has this 20-million-year-old spider in it!

1 posted on 10/12/2005 2:56:27 PM PDT by SirLinksalot
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To: SirLinksalot
"By analysing the position of the spider's body in relation to the droplets of blood in the amber we are able to determine how it died, which direction it was travelling in and even how fast it was moving."

Your tax dollars at work, people.

2 posted on 10/12/2005 3:01:33 PM PDT by 4mycountry (: TheBigB rules and anyone who argues gets ZOT-ed, understand?! :)
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To: SirLinksalot
David, said: "It's amazing to think that a single piece of amber with a single spider in it can open up window into what was going on 20 million years ago.

I was starting to get excited and then he said:

"By analysing the position of the spider's body in relation to the droplets of blood in the amber we are able to determine how it died, which direction it was travelling in and even how fast it was moving."

And I thought he was going to tell me about global warming or something. Who cares about the stupid spider?
3 posted on 10/12/2005 3:02:22 PM PDT by microgood
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To: 4mycountry

Of course, no question has been asked about how blood could survive 20 million years.

The scientists involved are hopeful that they can get DNA from the blood. Which brings me to my latest prediction. I predict that in the near future (5 to 10 years) that scientists will find DNA from a fossil at least 5 million years old. They will sequence the DNA and compare it to a living example of the same species and find that no appreciable mutation/evolution has taken place.


4 posted on 10/12/2005 3:03:28 PM PDT by SirLinksalot
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To: 4mycountry
"Your tax dollars at work, people."

Our tax dollars are going to fund research at the University of Manchester? You do know that's a British University, don't you?
5 posted on 10/12/2005 3:03:30 PM PDT by Moral Hazard ("Now therefore kill every male among the little ones" - Numbers 31:17)
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To: SirLinksalot

Rocks are dated in two ways, relative dating based on the sequence of formation of the rock compared to other surrounding rocks, and through radiometric age dating which gives an estimate of the actual age of the rock formation. The spider's age is determined from the age of the rock, not vice versa.

Maybe they can use spider dna to clone a 20 million year old spider..ala jurassic park.


6 posted on 10/12/2005 3:05:01 PM PDT by fizziwig
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To: 4mycountry
Your tax dollars at work, people.

None of my tax dollars are sent to the University of Manchester.

[checks your profile]. Nope. None of yours either.

On the other hand, I have no problem with the advancement and diffusion of science. Spend away.

7 posted on 10/12/2005 3:05:25 PM PDT by Wormwood (Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!)
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To: SirLinksalot
"Answer: because, it has this 20-million-year-old spider in it!"

How do they know the spider is 20 million years old?

In any case, I'm not really excited about the possibility of taking the DNA from prehistoric spider blood and combining it with a contemporary one to clone a freakish araneae.

8 posted on 10/12/2005 3:07:25 PM PDT by TheCrusader ("The frenzy of the Mohammedans has devastated the churches of God" -Pope Urban II, 1097AD)
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To: Moral Hazard

Cht. Didn't see it was in Britian. Sorry, lol.


9 posted on 10/12/2005 3:07:29 PM PDT by 4mycountry (: TheBigB rules and anyone who argues gets ZOT-ed, understand?! :)
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To: SirLinksalot

Coming soon on CSI Puerto Plata.


10 posted on 10/12/2005 3:08:59 PM PDT by WestTexasWend
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To: Wormwood

Definitely none of mine.

Didn't see the name of the University, or that it was in Britian. Whoops.

Oh well, just you wait. Sooner or late our guys will be equally fascinated by something pointless found over here in America, and then tax money will go to it. I gair-on-tee.


11 posted on 10/12/2005 3:09:49 PM PDT by 4mycountry (: TheBigB rules and anyone who argues gets ZOT-ed, understand?! :)
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To: SirLinksalot
Spider Blood Found In 20 Million Year Old Fossil...

Everybody knows that the Earth is only about 6,000 years old, so this is not possible.

Just had to throw that out and don the Kevlar skivvies.

12 posted on 10/12/2005 3:10:02 PM PDT by Recovering Hermit
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To: jwfiv

'It may be science and all, but I'd still scream if it were in my house' ping.


13 posted on 10/12/2005 3:10:17 PM PDT by Serb5150 (www.realultimatepower.net)
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To: SirLinksalot
"Of course, no question has been asked about how blood could survive 20 million years..."

The process by which amber preserves things is pretty well understood. Amber rapidly dehydrates its contents while creating an airtight seal, thus leading to long term preservation. That's basic science that I doubt the writer of a news article would feel the need to go back over.
14 posted on 10/12/2005 3:11:35 PM PDT by Moral Hazard ("Now therefore kill every male among the little ones" - Numbers 31:17)
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To: SirLinksalot
The scientists involved are hopeful that they can get DNA from the blood. Which brings me to my latest prediction. I predict that in the near future (5 to 10 years) that scientists will find DNA from a fossil at least 5 million years old. They will sequence the DNA and compare it to a living example of the same species and find that no appreciable mutation/evolution has taken place.

If they do they will have falsified evolution. Which is what makes it science.

Now propose a test that falsifies 'God did it'.

15 posted on 10/12/2005 3:11:49 PM PDT by Dinsdale
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To: SirLinksalot

You forgot your flame suit (;^)


16 posted on 10/12/2005 3:13:38 PM PDT by paradoxical (I do not have enough faith to believe evolution)
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To: 4mycountry

"Spider blood found in 20 million year old fossil."

Now, now, that's no way to talk about Teddy Kennedy just because he spins webs of deceit.


17 posted on 10/12/2005 3:25:25 PM PDT by R.W.Ratikal
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To: SirLinksalot

"They will sequence the DNA and compare it to a living example of the same species and find that no appreciable mutation/evolution has taken place."

Are you talking about relatively unimportant mutations like mutations to mitochondrial DNA? If so, then that would be a major contradiction to the precepts of evolution.

On the other hand, if it is the "same species", presumably all the important DNA would be expected to be pretty much the same.


18 posted on 10/12/2005 3:26:03 PM PDT by Moral Hazard ("Now therefore kill every male among the little ones" - Numbers 31:17)
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To: 4mycountry

"Spider blood found in 20 million year old fossil."

Now, now, that's no way to talk about Teddy Kennedy just because he spins webs of deceit.


19 posted on 10/12/2005 3:26:06 PM PDT by R.W.Ratikal
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To: SirLinksalot

"How do you know the rocks are 20 million years old?"

Probably one of these methods:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_dating


20 posted on 10/12/2005 3:28:47 PM PDT by Moral Hazard ("Now therefore kill every male among the little ones" - Numbers 31:17)
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