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To: devane617

I recognize GM's importance to the US economy. For that reason, and the fact that I like cars, I'm slightly bitter about what's been done to the company.

But, it seems the best answer is let them pay for their sins, (as the rest of us are left to clean up the mess). Perhaps when the Japanese buy GM they will economize by not giving 25% bonuses to the CEO when sales slip, or giving golden parachutes to all of their cronies.

Much bashing goes on about the cost of labor and healthcare benefits. However, the Japanese managed to open auto plants without unions here in the US. Quality is good, and everyone wins. GM is a mess, and the upper management is raiding the dying companies' coffers.

Damn them.


4 posted on 10/10/2005 7:40:38 AM PDT by brownsfan (It's not a war on terror... it's a war with islam.)
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To: brownsfan
However, the Japanese managed to open auto plants without unions here in the US.

Yes, but the Japanese and Germans have been opening up plants in the US that aren't in non right to work states. Tennessee, South Carolina, Alabama, etc. Michigan is not a right to work state. GM can't get out from under the unions' thumbs. The unions have used their political muscle in Michigan to make it a closed shop state, which makes employers leave. Those that stay cannot be competitive in the long run.

Combine that with long term pensions and you've got yourself a disaster.

19 posted on 10/10/2005 8:09:57 AM PDT by Koblenz (Holland: a very tolerant country. Until someone shoots you on a public street in broad daylight...)
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To: brownsfan

I imaginge the bulk of their pension plan is invested in their own stock. If the stock value plummets, then the ability to meet pension obligations evaporates, and then the Federal Pension insurance will have to kick in (i.e. me and you and our kids will pay through the nose in the form of taxes).

A second observation is that in the mid 90's, the Clinton Admin (abetted by the Republican controlled congress) dropped the level by which a company's pension was considered to be 'overfunded'. I don't remember the exact number but it used to be that you needed around %150 percent of your obligations in your pension fund and they dropped that to around %120 percent. During the high-flying 90's, that allowed some large companies to declare as earnings what should have been pension contributions.

Just something to watch out for if self-insured giants, such as GM, become insolvent.


23 posted on 10/10/2005 8:18:17 AM PDT by ChiefJayStrongbow
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To: brownsfan

"upper management is raiding the dying companies' coffers."

Is that so? How do you know that?


33 posted on 10/10/2005 9:01:56 AM PDT by RoadTest (We need our borders, language and culture secured.)
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To: brownsfan

I agree that senior management at GM is a mediocre lot, but that is all the more reason for the rank-and-file workers to display leadership in this situation. The rank-and-file has the most to lose, and if they are unwilling to agree to changes, they will see their jobs vanish.
GM is going to manufacture cars, but whether the firm does so in the US or not is another matter.
The best course of action for the UAW is to do all in its power to ensure that the company produces quality cars the public wants to buy and at reasonable prices. But if the UAW continues to believe that it can cling to an outmoded labor system, then there will be few if any cars assembled by UAW members.


65 posted on 10/10/2005 1:20:30 PM PDT by quadrant
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