Replies

Second, let me say thank you for being such a gracious guest. It's so gratifying to exchange ideas with people who think deeply about the real life implications involving the issues of the day. ; )

However, I also need to clear up some things.

Euthanasia is not an abstract idea around here. And it's not the "good death" that George Soros has promoted it as. It is the extermination of "undesirables."

You'll find that passions run deep on this subject. That's to be expected when the wholesale genocide of an entire class of people is discussed as though there is a choice to be made.

The only way to justify exterminating people is to classify them as less than human, therefor less deserving of life. The Nazis used this argument when they were tried for the crimes against humanity that are being committed here and now. It didn't saved their necks from the noose.

They also tried the excuse that euthanasia is for the good of the patient. That argument didn't work either.

Euthanasia is not the alleviation of pain and/or suffering. It is the ending of a life. No one can argue that the removal of a ventilator or a feeding/hydration tube alleviates pain and suffering. On the contrary, it causes pain and suffering, and eventually death. Lethal injection is sometimes appropriate, but only after a conviction for a very heinous crime. It is never for the good of the person being killed.

Let's be clear about something. We are not discussing the proper use of pain medication. We are all aware that the administration of enough pain medication to alleviate pain may hasten death. Eating fatty foods might hasten death. This has nothing to do with euthanasia, unless it's used in excess for the purpose of causing death.

In post #396, pickyourpoison told us that a friend had said patients were leaving a particular nursing home, and being replaced by AIDS patients. In post #401 you said that pickyourpoison's friend is mistaken. I'd still like to know how you know what's going on at that nursing home, when the rest of us don't even know what nursing home it is. Or were you just trying to pretend to know more than you do?

You say that you don't approve of torture, but I wonder if your definition of torture is as misleading as the definition you accept for euthanasia. Do you consider starvation to be torture? How about dehydration? Suffocation? These are all forms of euthanasia that are practiced today. They are called "passive euthanasia," as though those committing the act aren't directly involved.

An acquaintance of mine recently treated himself for an ingrown toenail. He thought he had it under control, until one morning he woke up with a massive infection and swelling that went halfway up his leg. He got medical attention, and is recovering. If he'd been elderly, or disabled, it's quite possible that he would have been denied treatment, and forced to die from the infection. If that isn't torture, what is?

JR encourages honest debate. If that's what you're here for, you've found the right place. But if you're here to disrupt, disguising your attempts as merely asking questions will not fool him or the moderators.

Some things are simply not open for debate. Whether or not an entire class of people should be eliminated through murder is one of those issues that's been settled. On Free Republic, we are free to advocate any side of most issues, but not that one. We are not free to advocate genocide against disabled people, Jews, Mexicans, or anyone else. Not even liberals.

Let the ashes of trolls who tried it serve as your guide.

May I ask why you see the asking of questions as a disguise for something devious, rather than as the mere seeking of information? I speak plainly, and expect plain speech in return.

I do not know where you found a discussion of "the wholesale genocide of an entire class of people"? I was under the impression that we were discussing a specific instance. I am sure you do not believe that anyone on this board is advocating genocide; the interesting question to me is why you feel such hyperbole is necessary (or effective). And I'm sorry, but your definition of euthanasia is simply wrong. Look it up in any dictionary you like, if you don't like the definition I quoted upthread. In none of them will you see the word defined as "the extermination of "undesirables." "

I do believe that one of the posting guidelines here--indeed, I'm looking at it as I type--is "no personal attacks". A quick look back through the thread will confirm that I have made none, though I have been the target of several. So if making personal attacks is one of the hallmarks of trolls, it is not I who fits the description. I have been open; I have been honest; I have been courteous. I have given no reason for anyone to believe I want anything more or less than an honest discussion and a mutual exploration of varying viewpoints.

It would appear, however that some here are only interested in new voices that will sing from the usual choirbook, not in listening to any voice that sings a different tune. They attack, call names, and attempt to run these voices off.

Me, I don't give up so easily. I believe some here will be interested in more rigorous thinking, less purple prose; more exploration of fact, less overblown hyperbole; more exchange of ideas, less rote recitation of slogans.

How about you?

Peace to you,
Clyffe

"pickyourpoison's friend is mistaken."

I really don't believe she's mistaken. She was an R.N. at the nursing home for several years but has now left. She told me about some of the problems the aids patients had [sores, bleeding,etc.] It was terrible.

Some of the aids patients thrash around and have to be medicated. While she was trying to give a patient a shot, he wouldn't stay still and the needle went through her glove and she punctured herself. She has been tested for aids and will have to be retested for several years.

What surprised me was that federal funding was greater for aids patients than for the elderly. I would have thought the funding would be the same for both.
Someone in the health care field could probably find out about the funding.