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To: Sonny M

First, before these hurricanes, we had 4.9% unemployment in this country. So, despite all of the outsourcing, there's no shortage of jobs.

Second, aside from consturction work, for this country to maintain its standard of living, we're looking at the wrong end. It's jobs in the sciences and science-related professions that need to grow. Many employers in these industries are forced to import workers from abroad, because they can't find qualified Americans.


72 posted on 09/24/2005 4:43:29 PM PDT by mwfsu84
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To: mwfsu84
Second, aside from consturction work, for this country to maintain its standard of living, we're looking at the wrong end. It's jobs in the sciences and science-related professions that need to grow. Many employers in these industries are forced to import workers from abroad, because they can't find qualified Americans.

We do need to continue into sciences and related professions, but those are not jobs being taken by illegals, and the people in those fields, usually worked somewhere or doing something else earlier in life (Like me, I work in real estate, when I was young, early college, I worked in retail).

There are many jobs, construction being one type, that need on the spot labor and labor demands, even a scientist needs to pay someone when he buys groceries, but the cashier won't be a neighbors son earning extra money to buy a car, it will an illegal immigrant.

The groups hardest hit, are usually high school students and college students, not to mention workers who work in on the spot labor type jobs and are now watching the wages of those occupations stagnate not due to natural market efficiency, but due to the injection of illegal labor which is used to suppress wage growth.

I.E. I need someone to do repairs, but as long as more and more illegals compete with Americans for those jobs, I could save more by hiring those illegals, as could or would my competitors, eradicating Americans who had done those jobs by making them compete with labor that is willing to work for sub-market value, these things have forward cyclical effects.

90 posted on 09/24/2005 5:58:50 PM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: mwfsu84; RightWhale; NoControllingLegalAuthority; foobeca
mwfsu84:
It's jobs in the sciences and science-related professions that need to grow. Many employers in these industries are forced to import workers from abroad, because they can't find qualified Americans.

      Bologna!  It's the same as for construction jobs - foreigners work cheaper.  The only difference is that technical and scientific jobs are filled by legal H-1B workers (or "outsourcing") instead of by qualified Americans - who do exist.

mwfsu84:
Actually, fifty years ago, most Americans were employed in manufacturing jobs, not landscaping or cleaning toilets

      That's true, but I believe you just may have missed foobeca's point.  Fifty years ago, the public toilets of America were cleaner than they are today, and they were not kept that way by citizens and a few legal immigrants, not by illegal border-jumpers.  Homes were built by men who spoke English, or at least were doing their best to learn it.  Most lawns were mowed by teenagers (and most people did their own "landscaping".)

      In short, America functioned quite well without the invading hoards of foreign labor.

RightWhale:
McDonalds is of course not one of those Big Corporations.

      Uhh - in terms of empoyees, it's not.  McDonalds makes its money from franchise fees, paid by local restaurant owners, who are the ones hiring the people behind the counter.

NoControllingLegalAuthority:
They are entering the United States with communicable diseases such as tuberculosis.

      Good point.

NoControllingLegalAuthority:
The borders can be effectively controlled by simply making it a felony to employ an illegal.
...
Illegals don't have to provide birth certificates required of American citizens

      But here we disagree (not on goal but on means.) 

      Americans did not need to show a birth certificate to get a job (or to do much of anything) until illegal "immigration" became a problem.  I resent having to prove my legal status in order to get a job.  Regulation of immigration is a legitimate function of the Federal Government, and it is not doing its job.  Punishing citizens and legal immigrants (mostly small business owners) for something actually caused by government negligence just doesn't seem right.

ROTB

      Small quibble.  I don't consider France to have a "protestant history"

110 posted on 09/24/2005 9:19:08 PM PDT by Celtman (It's never right to do wrong to do right.)
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