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To: betty boop
You agree that chemical laws can emerge as complex phenomena from simple physics. Why then, can't biochemistry emerge from simpler chemistry, and physiology from biochemistry? We understand those next levels of organization a little less well, but the principle seems reasonable.

But for highly complex systems such as the human body, it is difficult to conceive of the global organization required to coordinate all the various parts and systems -- that must all work dynamically and synergistically together, virtually instantaneously in real time, in order to maintain the system in a living state -- as proceeding on the basis of "near neighbor" relations exclusively. It appears that action-at-a-distance is involved, at the very minimum, to satisfy the global organization requirement. If this is so, we need to move beyond chemistry, and start looking at fields as the matrix in which such non-local actions can take place. And now we have entered the "magic kingdom" of physics and mathematics.

First of all, the brain doesn't work in real time. A modern computer requires synchronous operation on a time scale of nanoseconds. Humans can get by with synchrony a hundred million times slower.

Second, it's not all nearest-neighbor interactions. Neural conductivity is electrostatic and through space. And we understand - have understood for 50 years - how brains communicate with feet on a time scale of hundreds of milliseconds.

Electrostatics and chemistry are inextricably linked in the body. What creates the electric field is the motion of chemical species. The field is short range, precisely because we're a big bag of ions that respond to the fields and therefore shield them over long distances.

396 posted on 09/27/2005 7:31:38 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor

First of all, the brain doesn't work in real time. A modern computer requires synchronous operation on a time scale of nanoseconds. Humans can get by with synchrony a hundred million times slower.<<

Balderdash. If what you said it true, a robot would be running the hundred with the grace of a gazelle. Of course if you redefine real time as instantaneous, nothing is real time. A functional definition of real time is:

re·al-time
adj.

Of or relating to computer systems that update information at the same rate as they receive data, enabling them to direct or control a process such as an automatic pilot.

The brain controls a body in REAL TIME. Here's a comparison you may want to read:

>>What has billions of individual pieces, trillions of connections, weighs about 1.4 kilograms, and works on electrochemical energy? If you guessed a minicomputer, you're wrong. If you guessed the human brain, you're correct! The human brain: a mass of white-pink tissue that allows you to ride a bike, read a book, laugh at a joke, and remember your friend's phone number. And that's just for starters. Your brain controls your emotions, appetite, sleep, heart rate, and breathing. Your brain is who you are and everything you will be.<<

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/computer.html

You took another bad position perfessor.

LOL

DK

In your computer reference you forgot the various bottlenecks slowing down the process, was that intentional? Oh, also you forgot that the computer is dealing in 1 and 0 only. Oh, and you forgot the complexity of the program of the brain compared to the computer.

GIGO


397 posted on 09/27/2005 8:05:39 PM PDT by Dark Knight
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To: Right Wing Professor; betty boop
BB: But for highly complex systems such as the human body, it is difficult to conceive of the global organization required to coordinate all the various parts and systems -- that must all work dynamically and synergistically together, virtually instantaneously in real time, in order to maintain the system in a living state ...

Time to step back and think about what is being said here. The brain has very little to do with the coordination of bodily functions needed to stay alive. Breathing and heartbeat don't need a lot of intelligent coordination to maintain life.

BB: I think you need to clarify what you mean.

398 posted on 09/27/2005 8:15:19 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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