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To: Mase

Facts are funny thing, they at times can be twisted, such as calling tariffs govrenmnet control over the economy. Fact is before the new deal when the US govrenmnet was libertarian in nature, tariffs were used, in the period of 45-70, when productivity gains were far higher than even today, tariffs were used, and it certainly did not hurt the bottom line of big or small business'.

When free trade is practiced between nations of similar ability, such as US and Europe, and when both side trade fairly, it does benifit both sides, when "free" tracde is practiced between nations of the same ability, but one side has various tariffs that prevent entry into a market, such as the way the US trades between Japan and Korea(this lopsided policy was a result of cold war policy that allowed Japan and Korea dump products into the US in exchange for use of bases), the result is a nations wealth being traded to another nation. When it is practiced the way it is in regaurd to China and India, where US workers and intellectual property are at a servere disadvantage, it is insanity, that hurts the US economicaly long term, and paves the way for greater socialism.

With GW Bush leading a government that spends more and more, there is more and more govrenment control over the economy.


454 posted on 09/21/2005 4:42:56 PM PDT by RFT1
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To: RFT1
(this lopsided policy was a result of cold war policy that allowed Japan and Korea dump products into the US in exchange for use of bases), the result is a nations wealth being traded to another nation.

Yes, dumping trades one nations wealth to another. What do you expect when you sell for less the the cost of production? The buyers gets the sellers wealth. But that's not what you meant, is it?

461 posted on 09/21/2005 4:58:23 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with Marx, the AFL-CIO and E.P.I. please stop calling yourself a conservative!!)
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To: RFT1
Facts are funny thing, they at times can be twisted

Of course, that would require some be posted here in the first place.

calling tariffs govrenmnet control over the economy.

Tariffs are taxes that absolutely give government more influence over the economy by protecting inefficient businesses, that happen to be well connected or politically powerful, who obtain favors at the expense of consumers. A regulated economy produces masses of corruption because it empowers bureaucrats. No need to look any further than the welfare paid to the American sugar cartel for a prime example of this process in action.

tariffs were used, in the period of 45-70, when productivity gains were far higher than even today

Yeah, the good old days after WWII when we were the only country left with an industrial base. Lack of competition was responsible for the good times we experienced during those years and all of that ended when the rest of the world caught up with us. Many of our industries were fat and inefficient, thanks in part to the unions who controlled the labor our growing economy required. By time we got our act together, we had lost a large portion of our auto and electronics industry. American consumers decided they no longer had to buy crappy construction and outdated technology.

You should probably choose examples that support your assertions. I would also think twice before accusing others of using faulty logic or criticizing their sense of history.

such as US and Europe, and when both side trade fairly

I have yet to see anyone adequately define what fair trade means. Fair to whom? In the name of fairness, different groups advocate different protections for their specific industries and call the comparative advantage of other countries "unfair."What could be more fair than willing buyers and sellers coming together without government interference?

Do you think the EU trades fairly? Do they not aggressively protect their industries and workers? Many of their member states rank fairly low on the index of economic freedom and have the unemployment and moribund GDP growth to prove it. Is this the model you suggest we follow? Hey, at least Germany has a trade surplus! As a matter of fact, the German economy is run almost exactly by the ideal Paleo model.

It is focused on high-value-added manufactured goods, has high tariffs and protectionism, runs a strong trade surplus, has a strong currency, an invasive system of social insurance, low immigration (much lower than the US, UK or France), avoids military interventionism, etc. Pat Buchanan would be proud of this.

China and India, where US workers and intellectual property are at a servere disadvantage, it is insanity, that hurts the US economicaly long term, and paves the way for greater socialism.

Yes, they steal our intellectual property. This has been going on for a long time yet we still lead the world in just about every area of technology. No other country innovates and commercializes technology better than the U.S. Please show us, with facts, how this has hurt us long term and how this has paved the way to greater socialism.

With GW Bush leading a government that spends more and more, there is more and more govrenment control over the economy

I'm not happy about the spending either but he has a plan to control the biggest of the entitlement programs and that's a start. Entitlements are the problem but they have nothing to do with free trade.

484 posted on 09/21/2005 8:24:29 PM PDT by Mase
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