Really? Well you in a very small minority and I think most men would agree! LOL!
However thanks for your male insight, something to consider but I really prefer the type of man who see something he wants and has enought confidence to go after it without being afraid of rejection but then that's just me
However thanks for your male insight, something to consider but I really prefer the type of man who see something he wants and has enought confidence to go after it without being afraid of rejection but then that's just me
Believe it or not but a lot of men want the same thing. A woman who sees what she wants and goes after it.
And just for your information, I'm female.
I agree. I was married to someone for 26yrs that couldn't make decisions and it was h*ll. I would prefer an emotionally strong man that can take charge as needed... is strong in their convictions and is unwavering in the fray. Alas......GWB is taken! *chuckle*
However thanks for your male insight, something to consider but I really prefer the type of man who see something he wants and has enought confidence to go after it without being afraid of rejection but then that's just me"
Apackof2, you are absolutely right! Fog24 is a coward. So he wants to sit back and be selected by all the female "also rans". He if wants a quality woman, he needs to step up to the plate and take a cut at the ball.
Let me try to help out here (at least on the level of what's going on in a man's mind... as far as the "successful" dating thing, I'm still single, too).
The problem is that both men and women are confused on what a traditional courtship is. I think your quote above is as unrealistic as the guy who expects his girlfriend to be docile and obedient. It never happened that way, nor will it ever.
For example, let's talk about what attracts a man to a woman enough that he will ask her out. I think the evidence (from personal experience, anecdotal evidence, and yes, even scientific studies) is pretty clear. Men pursue women who signal their availability and interest. Personally speaking, I always look for clues that a woman might be interested before going over to talk to her. Why waste time, and risk very abusive rejection, on a woman who is not obviously receptive? I'm not some touchy-feely sensitive type, either. But rejection is painful, and repeated rejection (especially when it is harsh) is more so. It's kind of funny that, while a man should be expected to act like a gentleman (which I agree with wholeheartedly), a woman can be as catty or insulting as she likes (certainly not the way ladies used to react to unwanted attention), and the man should just suck it up. If a man said to a woman just a handful of the things I have seen women say to men (whether to me, to friends, or just overhearing in a bar), I'd bet most women would have already joined a convent. Quite the double standard...
I have quite a few close female friends, and have watched them cluster and giggle about the guy that just walked up to one and got shot down. And the ladies are not necessarily kind about it (telling a guy who simply walked up and started a conversation, nothing vulgar or inappropriate, that he might as well walk off right now because he's not man enough for her... I watched her do it... and got really pissed on his behalf). I find this very interesting, as most of the women I know are very quick to complain that men are not sensitive to their feelings, yet they often feel no compunction about brutally rejecting nice guys who just want to test the waters. There's quite a bit of selfishness in this whole issue: the lady would like to risk nothing but have a man risk everything, and many women glory in that power.
But back to my point. There have even been scientific studies of courtship behavior, and the results have been very interesting. In almost all of the cases, women who are approached by men almost always initiated the contact. They use what are called signal behaviors. Next time you are out with your girlfriends, and one of your friends in on the prowl and not too choosy about her catch, watch what she does. You'll be surprised at all of the little signals that get sent. For example, extended eye-contact (perhaps with a trailing smile), loud or boisterous laughter, briefly stepping in or out of the cluster (maybe just a few feet, but enough to separate her visually), playing with her hair, rubbing a finger on another object (like around the lip of her glass, etc., known as an "object caress"). Almost all of these subtle (and completely unconscious) activities are designed to attract a man's attention, and signal that she is available. And I'll bet it works.
My grandmother always used to say that a man chases and chases a woman until she catches him. That implies mutual pursuit. Perhaps part of the inability of some of these women to "find" the right man is that they aren't actually "looking." They want to avoid the pain of rejection themselves, and therefore don't put themselves in a situation where there is any risk to their feelings, expecting the man to do all of the work and accept all of the risk. Now, I have known men who got so used to rejection that it no longer bothered them anymore, but they were usually the type who were only looking to get laid, and saw frequent rejection as the cost of a quick score (one guy I knew used to hit on every woman in the bar, in quick succession, until he found one that was willing). In fact, becoming calloused to rejection almost has to preclude any genuine interest in a woman (how can you feel emotionally towards someone who you are trying to objectify so that you don't feel any pain if she rejects you).
Sorry, but I think the sentiments your reflect are no more representative of "a real man" or the "way things used to be" than are the guys who are looking for a submissive homemaker. In fact, I think they share a pedigree with many modern dating fallacies. They are based in an unrealistic view of what the relationship between men and women has been and should be. Women have always initiated relationships, just not directly. Waiting around for that one guy who doesn't care might work. But then what do you have? What does it say about his emotional suitability for a relationship with you if he's so insensitive to pain that he doesn't care if you laugh in his face? How much could he feel toward you if he couldn't care less that you don't want him...?
It's not just you, it's most women. You are more right about this than FOG724 is. Though you're both right to an extent.
It's not just you, it's most women. You are more right about this than FOG724 is. Though you're both right to an extent.
I've got absolutely no argument with that. If a guy is afraid to step up to the plate, he deserves to get benched. The problem is that some women play the "I'm going to pretend I'm not that interested" card after you've shown interest. And at that point, I figure it's time cash out my chips and look for another game.
Oddly enough, a lot of women with then attempt to retract the "I'm not that interested card", and suddenly get much more receptive. That's when the warning buzzers should go off for a guy.