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To: Axenolith
So, we wipe out the auto industry forthright, as, knowing human nature, initially people will be buying used cars (which are currently in an enormous glut) to save that 23%.

Not hardly...basic economics shows that supply and demand along with fair competition dictate prices...More likely the price of used autos will go up, just as they have gone down now with "employee discounts for all"(lower new prices=lower used prices) Autos raw materials, labor and manufacturing costs will come down from the loss of hidden compliance and tax costs..the amount of that decline is subject to debate, but any difference between new and used will narrow.

Also, is it just my "fair nature" that will keep me from purchasing groceries under my company visa card? If business to business isn't taxed, you can bet your ass I'm setting up a business while this is winding through the halls of confusion.

Read the bill, you will need to get an exemption for your purchases, and will be subject to audit. if you buy groceries now with your business card you probably still will. The difference is millions of people in the underground economy will have to pay something under a NRST.

While we're at it, what about real estate? What sort of protection does anybody outside of California have from rate increases which might arise in a declining real estate market? If I buy a used house, is it not taxed?

What rate increases are you talking about?.Is a used house different from a used car?

My wife works for a crane company. Cranes are hideously expensive. 23% of a million dollar crane can go a long ways to rebuilding several half million dollar ones. Some of these cranes are imported, how do we get the Germans to collect the tax? If B to B isn't taxed in this scenario, why do I have to pick up the slack? You really think that (a) the manufacturer will pass all the saving on? You really think an individual will reap benefits from this hypothesized cost savings when it's worked its way through the tilt-up walls of the neighborhood grocer???

Imported products are taxed only when sold in the USA. USA products are currently taxed at all stages of production, but under a NRST will only be taxed if sold in the USA to non businesses, exports of USA products will be more competitive. If it is used in a business, it is not taxed, what slack are you picking up? It is being used to produce things not consume them, ie. Consumption Tax. Yes prices are set by supply and demand an if one tilt up grocer charges too much and makes a large profit, competition will come along and lower the prices until a reasonable profit is made based on risk, just like now.

NRST is for suckers who think that they could trust the average politician as far as they could throw them. The NRST is only out there because the alternative is either flat tax, or the federal government goes back to the constitutional means of tax collection for themselves and gets the hell out of all the touchy feely crap that states should be doing and letting each other learn from the benefit of what would turn out by some to be their gross stupidity.

Uh I am not a sucker and I resent the remark, especially since you don't seem to have a real tight grasp on the NRST before coming to such a conclusion.

If states were responsible for all of the crap the Feds have taken upon themselves, you'd quickly see everyone move from the ones run by do gooder fools. As it is, we're trapped.

Um so having a NRST that lets everyone know what they are paying instead of hiding it in withholding, SS etc is bad ? Seems to me the first thing we must do is get everyone to see exactly what they are paying for this doo gooder nonsense. At the same time we will be taking the power away from Congress and giving it back to ourselves....They tax us too much we quit spending and save our money. Right now our only option is to quit making as much money and that hurts us more than them.

Even the concept of a 23% rate for an NRST is stupid, the Feds should maybe get 10%, if it were to cover their actual duties. All the other crap that creates legions of New Orleanites among the productive class should be left to states to either sink or swim upon...

The concept of 23% is dictated by the fact that a change in the law needs to be revenue neutral. Its a start, once people see what the govt is costing us, they can put pressure to cut spending. I agree the feds are doing far more than they should in many cases, and National Defense should be their primary function.

219 posted on 09/20/2005 1:03:19 AM PDT by rolling_stone (Question Authority!)
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To: rolling_stone
The US automotive industry could never survive this. GM has 300 billion in debt now. Granted, they're going under anyway but anything like GM that bites the dust during an NRST transition is going to be blamed on the NRST.

Read the bill, you will need to get an exemption for your purchases, and will be subject to audit.

And who audits? The X million guys who just had the sign over their offices changed from "IRS enforcement" to "NRST audit dept"...

While we're at it, what about real estate? What sort of protection does anybody outside of California have from rate increases which might arise in a declining real estate market? If I buy a used house, is it not taxed?

What rate increases are you talking about?. Is a used house different from a used car?

Property tax rate increases, the ones Californians are essentially immune to because the assesment only changes to new value when the property changes hands.

In general, my dislike of an NRST is primarily from the standpoint of it not starving out the politicians fast enough.

I'll probably be more inclined to agree with it after the economic collapse that hovers over us at the moment (I'm a "Gloom and Doomer" to some). Note the tagline, it's what we need to get back to at some point...

297 posted on 09/20/2005 6:19:43 PM PDT by Axenolith (Got Au? Ag?)
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