Posted on 08/24/2005 9:40:44 PM PDT by RobFromGa
Thanks, this has been a long day and I'm exhausted mentally. Good night all.
BTW, you do care about the Fair Tax or you would have posted on another thread besides the fair tax.
Nevertheless, I am going to push to get the Dr. to come on Boortz show so we can end this debate once and for all..
Wouldn't it help by making exports cheaper, and imports more expensive? All the embedded taxes would be removed from the business process, allowing businesses to sell inexpensively abroad. At the same time, All imported goods would have the fair tax tacked on, increasing the prices, and effectively taxing foreign companies.
I absolutely decline to engage in any of this argument, but I'd like to put my 2 cents in:
I'm sick of the current tax code and have been as long as I can remember. The cost of the bloated bureaucracy that is the IRS, the embedded favors, the huge enforcement arm, the cancerous tentacles that creep into every single area of life from birth to death--Americans have adjusted and adjusted and adjusted to this literal burgeoning insanity for far too long.
I'm for total reform. I don't much care about the flaming arguments on this board, the back and forth arguing.
I think the NRST represents a breath of fresh air, and I'd vote for it. I have already contacted my representative and senators to tell them so.
Roughly a third of my work effort goes to pay tax, a tenth goes to pay accountants and another tenth (at least) is taken up by planning, managing and recording for taxes, and god knows how much worrying about the whole stupid maddening meddling mess.
Give me a consumption tax, no accountants and no recording, reporting or auditing, no muss, no fuss, and I'd gladly take the net salary I have now and kiss you for it.
Your vote has been duly recorded in the "I hate the IRS, and I don't give a crap what we replace it with or what happens to the country as long as we abolish the IRS right now" column. Thanks for participating.
That is a valid position and I am somewhat inclined to agree that a NRST could possibly work, but only if it is sold honestly, if people are expecting their full paychecks and no change in prices they are going to be very unhappy when they realize that won't happen.
you lost me at "August 24, 2005"
Knock yourself out, I'm sure Boortz would prefer a root canal but he's more likely to try to ignore the whole issue if possible, after all this is his #1 NYT best seller we're talking about. Because he's not going to get Jorgenson to validate what he and Linder are saying. Because Jorgenson isn't drinking the Kool-Aid.
ok, thanks for stopping by.
Ridiculous claim.
Removing all corporate taxes and compliance costs from our companies will instantly make our producers more competitive in the world market.
And foreign producers are going to finally be taxed for playing in our market...at the point of sale.
The FairTax goes after the root causes of our monstrous trade deficits.
well, that's the last bump i give to one of your threads. take the lump of coal out of your butt. i'm sure it's a diamond by now.
The net result will be lower taxes and therefore lower prices with a NRST. Effectively an income increase, although of course market forces will still apply including supply, demand, productivity, etc.
If you look at the situation as static - which of course it is not, but people like to compare it that way - then you would have a net zero effect, that would be its intent, to get the same amount of tax in a different way.
However, putting aside my own situation, the larger picture with a consumption tax is more tax income (that is now being missed w/black market, off the books transactions) and a HUGE savings in legal and accounting expenses resulting in a sizable increase in productivity - and another increase in investment and wealth creation resulting from removing the disincentive of progressive taxation - and all the economic benefits citizens see from this.
As for "honesty" to citizens in order for them to make an informed choice, good luck. The first step to approaching this would be to eliminate the witholding charade that makes taxes look like bonuses. The second step would be to gag all the lying tax-addicts in congress and wealth redistributionists in media and academia.
That wasn't what I said, and that's exactly why I stay off these threads except to offer my opinion, once.
I didn't say that I "didn't give a crap what we replace it with"--I said that I'm for total reform and that the NRST represents a breath of fresh air.
The fact that you completely misrepresented what I said in order to make a supercilious rude comment to me doesn't speak well for your credibility.
I don't know of ANY elected representative that thinks the IRS is just fine the way it is. I don't know of anyone who thinks the present tax system is fixable. I don't know of anyone who thinks it isn't a drain on productivity and the economy in general.
I think the NRST is a breath of fresh air. I look forward to hearing or reading a debate without name-calling. So far, we don't have that on this thread. And as far as I know, I didn't address ANYONE with my post, just gave my opinion, and then got insulted.
I'm off the thread. But my comments will remain, so that anyone who reads it can see what happens to those who offer their opinion here.
Pinging you to some detective work I have been working on today.
I commend your initiative and investigation on this issue.
Good work, I have sent your information on to AFFT requesting their response as well.
It can only be to the good to correct errors and misinterpretations and get discourse onto a clear basis.
Hopefully more information will be forthcoming regarding levels of takehome wages, consumer(tax inclusive) as well as producer(tax exclusive) price comparisons as a result of your efforts.
Maybe somebody will even consider prying loose the resources to produce current and uptodate studies incorporating current tax law and economic conditions as they exist today, instead of having to struggle with ambiguous 5-10yr old studies base on out of date tax laws and rates.
Certainly would be a good thing to see as the Presidents tax reform panel approaches their deadline for releasing their findings.
Would be nice to see what actually is a revenue neutral tax rate for the FairTax today under a formal review, and what the real impact of the FairTax legislation can mean to the household with sufficient clarity to avoid misrepresentions and misinterpretations of study results.
I am already plenty aware of how much I, as an independant consultant, pay in.
I'll be d@mned if I want to pay double to "educate" those who are not smart enough to figure out that the check they get in the spring is not "money from the government" but the unused portion of a payment, in effect, the payment of the principle of an interest free loan.
Counting on business to "pass on the savings" is pretty starry-eyed imho, too.
What's to keep this 23% tax from increasing the minute we switch to the national sales tax?
What's to keep the current tax rates from being increased, or deductions reduced or modified to increase the taxes under the current system.
Visibility and the rate effecting all voters is a key factor, if a rate hike affects politician's constituents negatively, in the case of a retail sales tax, staying in office to do that kind of damage becomes dicey.
That's why European tax system like to keep taxes hidden from the view of their citizens, and we use income and employer side wage excises to do the same under the current federal tax system.
bttt
Thats a stretch. By that reasoning, all workers are providing a "service," and should pay that tax now, irrespective of a fair tax enactment.
Now, they don't tax service professionals in this state.
They may in some others, but those are professional services, as in doctors and lawyers.
The requirements for IRS independent contractors are pretty easy to follow.
Its the state requirements that seem to be a bitch.
We use them every day in our business.
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