Brits to get RFID-chipped license plates

engadget.com ^ | Aug 9, 2005, 9:15 AM ET | Barb Dybwad

[Hodar]

Of course you have a right to drive.

Sources please?

Or is this a 'right' because you really, really want it to be? If it's a right (like walking, talking, traveling on horseback), why do we have speed limits, insurance requirements, safety checks and written/driving/eye sight tests that are mandated? A 'right' has no such requirement. I don't have to speak clearly to talk. I don't have to have good eye sight to ride a horse, nor do I have to carry insurance to walk around.

Next absurd straw-man, please.

[RFEngineer]

"people are more interested in how thier perceived 'rights' are impacted"


Mr. Hodar-

You are receiving this email to inform you that we have already deducted the several traffic violations for which our sensors have found guilty this morning.

We also noticed that with jackrabbit starts, you aren't driving your car as efficiently as we would like, so we have debited the gas hog tax.

Additionally, you received 4 cell phone calls on your drive to work, making you an automatic chronic violator of our distracted driving ordinance. Your cell phone service has been terminated for 30 days for safety purposes.

And just what were you doing at the "starlight" motel at lunchtime?

You also traversed through a smog control zone, which means you are being assessed an additional $.07 per mile.

You were also tardy in fastening your seatbelt on several occasions, and found to be following too closely behind a vehicle - violations for which you will receive a warning only this time.

This is an automated email, we regret that we cannot accept replies to this email address.

Have a nice day, and be a safe - environmentally and otherwise.

[patton]

"Maryland issues speeding tickets based on EZPass readers"

[RFEngineer]

"Plates are they proptery of the state not yours"

Which is exactly why they'll be kept in a safe place at home where they can't be damaged.

Facimiles thereof will be attached to my car, along with the "dummy transponder" to respond to any RFID queries with a random sequence.

[patton]

see 43

[Allosaurs_r_us]

and people are more interested in how thier perceived 'rights' are impacted.

 

More like it is just another infringement. It's just not a good idea to let the government into every aspect of American culture. Sure it will do all the things you say and more. Maybe a good idea even as long as it is not abused. But there is the problem. Are you or anyone else going to guarantee this privilege we extend to the government will not be abused?

 

Before you start spouting that it is ridiculous to think that, or "if you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about", how about getting Hitlery to return the FBI files she obviously stole. There is always going to be that element of the government who will have individuals who believe they are above the law.

 

It has the "potential" of being abused by those in power to use it for other than what it is intended. Aside from that, when would you suggest we draw the line? Why don't we just use what we already have on the books and improve or cut all the red tape. You are suggesting making the bureaucracy bigger. It is so large now criminals are slipping thru the cracks on an hourly basis.

 

And another thing. Who is going to foot the bill? I don't know about you, but I'm about damned tired of giving up my money to bloodsuckers in DC. Take a look at the new transportation bill. That is our money they are spending and it is loaded full of special interest pork. Enough is enough.

[Hodar]

Now we get over those little things called 'due process' and 'probable cause', and you may have a point. But, in fact those facets of our laws more or less shots down your entire (albeit well worded, and well thought out) arguement.

[Hodar]

It has the "potential" of being abused by those in power to use it for other than what it is intended.

How is this going to be abused? Your car is scanned, it is a passive activity taking microseconds with out either your knowledge nor consent. If I am looking, I can see you. Those windows work both ways, ya know. If I know you, I may even wave at you as you drive by. Your plates are a unique indicator assigned to you and your car. Anyone can SEE that number. It's no big secret that the police use these licence numbers to track criminals. How does having license plates restrict you? How can those be 'abused'? All the RFID does, is allow computers to act as non-blinking eyes. They are observers only, they take no actions at all.

As for footing the bill, who foots the bill for the Amber Alerts? Who foots the bills for traffic warning signs? We do; and the RFID system is very inexpensive.

[WideGlide]

Part of the way these elected officals have chosen to track things, is by issueing licenses to people to do things (prepare and sell food, build houses, install sewers, drive, manufactur firearms, ect). These people do not have a 'right' to these licenses, nor do they own them.

Don't come crying to me when the Food Police break down your door to take away your cheeseburgers. That's the way these elected officials have chosen to fix OUR obesity problem.

[Hodar]

Don't come crying to me when the Food Police break down your door to take away your cheeseburgers. That's the way these elected officials have chosen to fix OUR obesity problem.

Somehow, I just can't see Senator Kennedy standing for that.

[hedgetrimmer]

This is the source.

'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'

To track a persons every move, for a free people, is in complete contempt of their rights to be secure in their persons.

I think the founders would consider your view with contempt and dismay. There is a profound ignorance of the concept of freedom by the people living in this country today. I presume its because 1. many people are coming here from countries that do not respect individual liberty, or 2. they are globalists who want to have control over the population, like Tony Blair. Did you know he is a vp in the Socialist International, and also a member of Britains Fabian society? Why would a free American even consider anything that he is doing to his country as something to do here?

[Hodar]

'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'

The RFID chip neither searches, seizes nor flags anyone as a threat. It is merely an indicator, just like those big 3-inch tall numbers on your plates. Your same argument would apply to having license plates on a car, the ONLY difference is that the RFID process is automated, and physically reading the numbers is manual.

[hedgetrimmer]

In buses your behavior is easily observed. Thats why the socialists all want you to ride buses and trains and not have private transportation. They think private cars should be only available to the elites and the masses need to be watched at all times. Thats also why they are pushing for "smart growth". In "smart growth" developments no one has cars, you are stacked on top of one another in tiny apartments with no yards and no private outdoor spaces. All spaces are communal so public behavior is easily observed.

In case you forgot the soviet union, and they do this in cuba too, if you are always out in the public the "bloc captain" can watch what you do and report whatever they want to their "superiors". As happened in the soviet union and in Cuba, they can lie if they don't like you and whose word do you think your "superiors" will believe?

[hedgetrimmer]

The RFID chip neither searches, seizes nor flags anyone as a threat.

And how is this a free country if our government knows everywhere you go? In the past human spies or "bloc captains" did this job for the communists. Do you think it less offensive because a camera is doing it?

I think you failed your civics class in school, if you ever took one.

[WideGlide]

Somehow, I just can't see Senator Kennedy standing for that.

Some, you included apparently, might have made an identical statement about electronic License Tag monitoring. Could you see Senator Ted "Chappaquiddick" Kennedy standing (or swimming) for that?

[Hodar]

Perhaps you can check this post out ...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1469400/posts

And wish these youngsters were all dead, instead.

I'd rather someone knew where a suspecious truck went, and have your daughter remain alive; than have you spend the rest of your life wondering where your daughter went.

As for Civic's class; whether a cop follows your car around and writes your plate number down, or it's scanned by an RFID device; what is the difference? I don't care if you know I went down 6th Street. But, if my car is at the corner of 6th and Main; and it's stolen, I care a lot.

[Allosaurs_r_us]

How is this going to be abused? Your car is scanned, it is a passive activity taking microseconds with out either your knowledge nor consent. If I am looking, I can see you. Those windows work both ways, ya know. If I know you, I may even wave at you as you drive by. Your plates are a unique indicator assigned to you and your car. Anyone can SEE that number. It's no big secret that the police use these licence numbers to track criminals. How does having license plates restrict you? How can those be 'abused'? All the RFID does, is allow computers to act as non-blinking eyes. They are observers only, they take no actions at all.

 

Then according to your argument, we don't need it at all as we already have the same thing in place now. You just want it to be faster. Sorry, I don't think you need it to be any faster.

 

They are increasingly using the plate to hand out tickets by your unblinking eye. Regardless of who is driving, the owner is getting the ticket. That is a fact you cannot deny and is an abuse of the system.There are several scenarios in this thread that show the potential for abuse, you are just refusing to acknowledge them. So I guess you're hopeless.

 

From looking at this thread I would say the majority feel this is an intrusion and could be used in a matter that could make you guilty before proven innocent. I don't think that is what this country is about. Why is it you think technology should send us in that direction? Is it your intention, like the current DemoncRats, the minority should rule because "they" are the elite, and know what is good for the majority? That certainly appears to be your attitude.

[Tench_Coxe]

"Please enlighten me. Where does the US Constitution mention anything about license plates, RFID, or Automobiles? Where does it US Consitution mention rights to travel anywhere (either within State lines, or inter-state), in absolute privacy? Simply stated, it doesn't."

Well, that pesky 9th amendment for starters. From your posts, you appear to be saying people cannot expect to have and degree of diginity beyond their own home ( and we can argue the decay of the 4th, 5th, and yes, the cryptic 3rd amendment if you wish).

If people cannot be reasonably secure in their persons, or their property, then perhaps it is time to disolve the current bonds of government and form another to secure their rights.

[Hodar]

Don't try to read into things, simply look at them from the logical and practical aspects. If we KNEW each other, then we could try to guess what the other is thinking; but as this is a quick blog, that just doesn't work.

Yes, I want things faster, I want things more efficient. I see nothing wrong with fast and efficient. We could hire a gazillion more cops to write down and communicate who goes where; or we can have a simple RFID system.

If your car is stolen, the system filters the VOLUMES of data, looking for your RFID. If we have a child snatched, we have the ability to find that vehicle; hopefully BEFORE something bad happens. If this system were in place, how far do you think Joseph E. Duncan would have gotten with Shasta Groene before getting caught? How many stolen cars would be found, with the thief at the wheel? How many drug distributors could be traced to their source?

Do you think anyone cares how many PTA meetings I go to?

Now, we 'could' continue to do this manually; depending upon alert waitresses and suspicious cops, or we can use existing technology. I'll sacrifice automated surveillance over human lives every single time.

Let's not forget that those evil automated surveillance cameras SUCCESSFULLY identified some Islamic terrorists in Britain. How many innocent people would have died if not for those devices?

[WideGlide]

whether a cop follows your car around and writes your plate number down, or it's scanned by an RFID device; what is the difference?

The difference is that the government is teamed with a For Profit company to operate the system. The obvious incentive is for the private corporation to maximize profits. Red light camera operators have already been found to have teamed with "States" to shorten yellow lights at particularly profitable intersections. Smile! You're on Candid Camera.