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To: tortoise
Thank you: this exchange is more informative for me than I ever expected in the beginning. It is hard to fathom that read this on a "conservative" board:

What is the point of having offspring? Any moron can do that. It certainly should not be a point of pride.

It's a sad testament to the current state of morals and ability to think that you do not realize that, for most people and for most of human history, having offspring meant not just giving birth to but raising children. And, no, not a single moron can do that.

It is quite shocking that you have no clue about the difference. But that is not entirely your fault: you've been betrayed by the previous generation that did not give a reason to learn these matters.

Just because having children gratifies some personal desire on your part There you go: what do you know about ME, and why can't you think about ideas without reference to messengers of those ideas? Ah, here too you've been betrayed: you probably have a diploma, but cannot think logically.

does not mean that everyone else needs the same kind of gratification. Nor does it contribute in a meaningful sense to the well-being of the country.

Here too you go again the basic truths that survived the millennia across cultures. If you do not pro vice offspring, it is my child that will be defending the country when you are old, taking you out of the fire, and helping you sit up in your nursing home. No offspring --- none of that is available. The clients you helped in your profession, your neighbors with whom you were friendly, your buddies whom you treated with loyalty and respect --- none of them will be available for those jobs.

That is why both civilized societies and primitive tribes encouraged childrearing. It has always been, up until a few decades ago, a self-evident truth: your children are yours to raise but they are an asset to the entire society.

What I said is far from being merely philosophical. The Western society is literally dying precisely the aforementioned eternal principle has been abandoned. Western Europe imports Muslims to do the jobs that children of European could do but cannot --- because they have not been born.

Finally, and most importantly, regardless of what one thinks of the foregoing, the following is wrong:

Doing a job well in the abstract is worth what it is worth, the same as any other.

The point actually is, why doing one's job well AND having children was considered a standard throughout American history, and now only the former suffices? And, even if it does suffice, how can one be proud of doing less than previous generations did routinely? Shouldn't doing more, not less, be a source of pride?

68 posted on 08/17/2005 4:19:39 PM PDT by ExitPurgamentum
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To: ExitPurgamentum
If you do not pro vice offspring, it is my child that will be defending the country when you are old, taking you out of the fire, and helping you sit up in your nursing home.

It always slays me when 'conservatives' get all preachy and declare that the point of having children is so that they can be exploited for the benefit of older generations. Oh, they rarely state it quite like that, but that is what they are saying.

Having children for the purpose of extracting some future benefit is the epitome of being self-centered -- fine moral stance, that. Like all the geezers who think that their children and grandchildren should be forced to pay for their Viagra.

72 posted on 08/17/2005 4:38:24 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: ExitPurgamentum

Excellent analysis!


87 posted on 08/17/2005 5:36:27 PM PDT by walden
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