$1.3 million for search for HMAS Sydney

seven.com.au ^ | 14th August 2005

[naturalman1975]

Prime Minister John Howard says the government will contribute $1.3 million towards a search for the wreck of HMAS Sydney, lost with all hands in 1941.

Mr Howard said there was a good chance Sydney's final resting place off the West Australian coast could be located and one of the enduring mysteries of World War II solved at last.

He said the funding would go to HMAS Sydney Search Pty Ltd and its partner David Mearns and a great deal of preparation and research had already been undertaken.

Mr Mearns managed to located the wrecks of the Bismarck and the Hood, both sunk in the North Atlantic in 1941.

Mr Howard said the loss of Sydney was one of the great sea mysteries of World War Two.

"A large number of citizens including but not restricted to people related to those who perished have been involved in raising money and they have a very well developed plan and we are very hopeful in providing this money that the result will be that the ship will be located," he told reporters.

"We therefore think it's a very important gesture by the federal government to assist given the ongoing interest of so many."

In one of the enduring mysteries of World War II, Sydney sank with all 645 hands after a close range battle with the German raider Kormoran off the West Australian coast on November 19, 1941.

The German vessel also was sunk in the engagement and its 317 survivors from 397 aboard gave the only eyewitness accounts of the battle.

Both vessels sank in deep water off the continental shelf and there has never been firm agreement among researchers on a possible location for either wreck.

Mr Howard said there was an understanding broadly where Sydney went down and the funding would be used to conduct a sonar search of the seabed of the identified area with a suitable vessel equipped with state-of-the-art sonar equipment and experienced personnel.

"We are confident having looked at it very carefully that they are people not only of great substance but also of great experience in this area," he said.

"On the information given to us and given the track record of the partner (the prospects of success are) pretty good."

Mr Howard said HMAS Sydney II held a special place of regard with Australia's wartime population thanks to its earlier successes in the Mediterranean Sea.

"The finding of the HMAS Sydney II would close a significant chapter in Australia's wartime history and bring a long awaited closure to the suffering of the families, as well as allowing the proper recognition of the sacrifice made by the 645 crew," he said.

[naturalman1975]

[konaice]

There are other theories of the loss of the Sydney: Kormoran was sunk with the loss of about 60 of her 400 crew, the survivors later being interned in Australia. Of Sydney the only trace was two empty lifeboats and a Carley raft. The loss of such an accomplished ship and her entire complement to an opponent whose primary armament consisted of six 5.9-inch guns has never been satisfactorily explained. One theory is that the cruiser surprised the raider while she was rendezvousing with a Japanese submarine. To obliterate any evidence of the presence of one of their vessels in the area at all, it is believed that Sydney may have been sunk ultimately by a Japanese submarine—possibly I-124—and not by Kormoran alone.

[Boundless]

> Mr Howard said the loss of Sydney was one of the
> great sea mysteries of World War Two.

Umm, the story provided seems pretty straighforward.
Until quite recently the precise location of the vast
majority of WW-II sinkings was unknown. What makes
this one a "great" mystery?

> "On the information given to us and given the track
> record of the partner (the prospects of success are)
> pretty good."

As are the odds that what they [first] find will be the
Kormoran instead.

[TeleStraightShooter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Kormoran

[konaice]

Here's the link to the summary of my above post:

http://www.albury.net.au/~wwhittake/sydneysearch/Japanese_Submarine_Montgomery.html

[konaice]

Umm, the story provided seems pretty straighforward. Until quite recently the precise location of the vast majority of WW-II sinkings was unknown. What makes this one a "great" mystery?

It is a great mystery simply because the ship has never been found.

[Boundless]

> Of Sydney the only trace was two empty lifeboats
> and a Carley raft.

Well, Hood darn near went down with all hands too.
All it takes is a lucky shot.

But reading between the lines, one might wonder if
the Germans (or the notional Japanese) killed any
survivors.

[okie01]

What makes this one a "great" mystery?

HMAS Sydney was never seen to sink. The survivors of the Kormoran saw Sydney limp away from the battle. By the next morning, it had disappeared -- they didn't know whether it sank or survived until after they were rescued.

[konaice]

they didn't know whether it sank or survived until after they were rescued.

Maybe, Maybe not. Follow the link in #5.

[konaice]

But reading between the lines, one might wonder if the Germans (or the notional Japanese) killed any survivors.

And reading even further between the lines, if the ship has gapping torpedo holes in its hull other than near the forward turrets where Kormoran claimed to have scored a hit, it becomes clear that the Japanese first strike of the war against the Alies was NOT a Pearl Harbor but rather it was over two weeks earlier when they attacked the Sydney.

[Boundless]

> ...if ... Japanese first strike of the war against the
> Alies was NOT a Pearl Harbor but rather it was over two
> weeks earlier when they attacked the Sydney.

One of the links above lead to:

"I have omitted my further argument that news of the
Sydney’s loss to a Japanese submarine formed the
content of a top-secret telegram from Churchill to US
President Roosevelt in the early hours of November
26th, which then caused the latter finally to break
off negotiations with the Japanese and so set the
ball for war rolling;"

Finding that ship could re-inflame the debate about
what FDR knew and when he knew it and why the War
Department wasn't warned.

[konaice]

Finding that ship could re-inflame the debate about what FDR knew and when he knew it and why the War Department wasn't warned.

Finding the memo would be more damning than finding holes in the ship. The Ausies would have been the most likely source of this info since by then they had picked up the German Survivors, although Churchill may have been reading the German's mail.

But, most reports seem to imply that the Ausies did not put all the pieces together untill some time later, after Pearl.

Still, its a leap to assume that even certain knowledge, after the fact, of an attack near Austrailia (and any such knowledge was far from certain) would automatically suggest fore-knowledge of another attack thousands of miles further north. Especially since Sydney more or less blundered into the Kormoran which was heavily disguised as a commercial vessel.

An interesting story in any event.

[Boundless]

> Finding the memo would be more damning than finding
> holes in the ship.

Indeed, but Sandy Berger shredded it.

> ... its a leap to assume that even certain knowledge,
> after the fact, of an attack near Austrailia (and any
> such knowledge was far from certain) would automatically
> suggest fore-knowledge of another attack thousands of
> miles further north.

That wasn't what I had in mind. An alert to US forces
in the Pacific, that the Japanese had attacked an
Australian warship, might have put them on an alert
status just enough higher to seriously degrade the
effectiveness of the Dec 7 attacks.