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To: Alexander Rubin

"obey his laws as best I can"

What if your obedience to his laws is not good enough?

Do have to obey the laws 10%,30%,70% or 90% what is enough and how do you know when you have been obedient enough? Does a bell go off at a certain number? ;-)


46 posted on 08/12/2005 12:39:12 PM PDT by GestehenSieUndGibtAuf (Tagline here)
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To: GestehenSieUndGibtAuf

Well, then I must face the consequences. Can you do any better? Can you truly say you know the will of G-d better than I do?

Man can not presume to know the mind of the Lord, nor his essence.

Although, the bell would be nice. "DING! Congratulations. Your...mitzvot and good deeds quotient is now completed...Please prepare for heaven. Thank you, and have a nice eternity."


52 posted on 08/12/2005 1:10:22 PM PDT by Alexander Rubin (Octavius - You make my heart glad building thus, as if Rome is to be eternal.)
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To: GestehenSieUndGibtAuf
"What if your obedience to his laws is not good enough? Do have to obey the laws 10%,30%,70% or 90% what is enough and how do you know when you have been obedient enough?"

Alexander Rubin can answer that better than I can. But IMO, a Christian cannot answer that for himself with regard to the topic of variations between Christian and Jewish beliefs adequately without self-study of quite a few original references (including at least several different bible translations).

I am not Jewish but am involved in the lifetime study of Christianity and Judaism (and in my own conversion). The study started with the New Testament. See, for example, the word errors in Hebrews 9:7 (King James), then read Hebrews 9:7-12.

Now look at the original Greek text for the word agnoema. ...unintentional sins. There were many other questions that I sought to find the answers to--for example, where Jesus started reciting laws to a man who asked him as to how to get to heaven. And there has been (and will be) much, much more study.

I've studied many of the documents and comments of the Church (Roman Catholic Church) "fathers."

Again, I've not even begun to be qualified to speak for Jews (much less rabbis). But the best that I can tell, so far, in Jewish scriptures (not only referring to "writings" here), redemption comes historically from sacrifice for sin (unintentional sins), repentance (the only way after intentional sins) and charity. G-d will determine as to who has done enough to have a place in the world to come (see disclaimer about me not having begun any formal study of Judaism), but people of any of several religions can possibly do it. Hopefully, some Jewish friends will correct/help me with that--especially on "sacrifice," as my study has far to go.

Trying to do what is righteous and studying much to find out seems to be a step in the right direction (which many Christian fundamentalists also believe to be true). ...enormous amount of study yet for me to learn more about all of that, but I want to find the truth for sure.

...hope that helps, with my past Christian insight (former Southern Baptist) and all. And BTW, I'm very much a believer and very conservative. ...just changing.
59 posted on 08/12/2005 1:53:36 PM PDT by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: GestehenSieUndGibtAuf
"What if your obedience to his laws is not good enough? Do have to obey the laws 10%,30%,70% or 90% what is enough and how do you know when you have been obedient enough?"

Here's a better answer to your question than the one I posted before. Scroll down and read under "How do Jews obtain forgiveness without sacrifices?," from where it says, "Forgiveness is obtained through repentance, prayer and good deeds."

http://www.jewfaq.org/qorbanot.htm
103 posted on 08/13/2005 7:54:35 PM PDT by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: GestehenSieUndGibtAuf

By the way, regarding your username (Gestehen Sie Und Gibt Auf) that appears to be very English phraseology ("Confess and give up.") Shouldn't it be something more like, "Bekennen Sie und übergeben Sie?" ...not that I know anything about where German figures of speech (many) go from one year to the next.


104 posted on 08/13/2005 8:16:22 PM PDT by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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