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"Yeah, but military aircraft don't take a quarter of a century to develop."

Neither did shuttle. It took about ten years (still too long) to go from "gee, being able to at least refurbish a spacecraft would be nice" to "go for throttle up". The difference is that there is a great deal of public visibility on shuttle, and hence politics that slow things down greatly.

"That's because most military aircraft are designed by engineers not by the democratic process like the shuttle was."

That's completely true, though of course still not a quarter century. Shuttle is the product of a failed military-civilian partnership that has actually worked out fairly well in the long run. However, I agree wholeheartedly that we need to move on. The new CEV and associated systems are doing that. The architecture of the system removes almost all of the "debris issue", so that should calm a few critics.

"And it isn't so much about loss of life as it is about cost and reliability."

I would expect that the military over the past 25 years has blown through a great deal more money on their failed systems than NASA has, but the public doesn't see most of it. That's not a criticism on my part, it's just something to do with breaking eggs to make an omelet.

NASA is in a white-hot spotlight during every shuttle flight, and it leads to a very unforgiving environment.

It took about ten years (still too long) to go from "gee, being able to at least refurbish a spacecraft would be nice" to "go for throttle up".

I'm counting the last 15 years since people say it is still in the "testing phase".

I would expect that the military over the past 25 years has blown through a great deal more money on their failed systems than NASA has, but the public doesn't see most of it.

Probably, but that doesn't make it right. It's more of an argument for reviewing military procurement than justifying the shuttle boondoggle.

In Ben Rich's book, Skunk Works, Ben's boss, Kelly Johnson warned him about allowing the Pentagon to interfere with the day-to-day operations. He knew that the stealth fighter project would take ten times as long, cost ten times as much money and probably not work right if the pentagon brass were allowed to interfere. (What would have happened if the EPA found out they were using asbestos on the wings?)

Fortunately Johnson was ballsy enough to keep the bureaucrats out.