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To: spinestein
"Only when public school teachers get paid according to their abilities and accomplishments (like in a real job)"

Easy to say--hard to do. There are too many factors. If a teacher has all low kids and makes wonderful progress with them, but still gets lower test scores with some teacher who works with higher students and gets higher test scores, which one should be paid higher? There's a lot of subjective things to consider too. A teacher who works really well with parents may not have things reflected in a quantitative way. Sometimes it is things like that that REALLY count.

With the current climate of encouraging disrespect towards teachers, it seems that one's idea of merit pay wouldn't be any more, probably less, than I make now (which is okay--not minimum wage--but not a whole lot either).

I love being a teacher and wouldn't trade it for anything. We have been in school two weeks and I already have a myriad of stories to tell. I love working with the students and parents and seeing the progress of my little first graders. Seeing those little eyes light up is wonderful as it is when the parents get excited that their children are learning too. So in a way, I receive a lot of "merit" pay, in fact more than any amount anyone can give. For such is priceless, and you can't put a measure on that.

222 posted on 08/08/2005 3:35:01 PM PDT by moog
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To: moog
[If a teacher has all low kids and makes wonderful progress with them, but still gets lower test scores with some teacher who works with higher students and gets higher test scores, which one should be paid higher? There's a lot of subjective things to consider too. A teacher who works really well with parents may not have things reflected in a quantitative way. Sometimes it is things like that that REALLY count.]


From my own experience working in industry (this method is used by large companies who have many workers to keep track of), the best way to recompense workers fairly based on merit is:
- The company (school) devises a set of comprehensive standards that consists of reasonable goals the workers (teachers) are expected to achieve.
- Competent supervisors track workers achievements according to the standard and at regular times (perhaps once or twice per year) an evaluation is made as to how well the worker accomplished the goals.
- Written records are kept of merit evaluations, and review of the evaluation system itself is part of the process as well as an appeals provision to help prevent bias.

I've seen this system work very well for companies that have a great many workers who do difficult jobs that may seem hard to evaluate or have subjective outcomes, as you pointed out is true of teachers.

The key is to place knowledgeable supervisors who are, or were, experienced teachers themselves in the position of evaluating the current employees. This ensures that evaluations are based on what is reasonably expected of individual teachers given the students, the parents, the environment, amount of money the school has, and anything else, objective or subjective that affects performance.

I know that this type of system for evaluating merit pay would disgust many union workers and certainly every union leader, but it does work, and it's a vast improvement over the "equal pay for all" system that is the current practice.
226 posted on 08/08/2005 7:44:24 PM PDT by spinestein (The facts fairly and honestly presented, truth will take care of itself.)
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To: moog
What you said about the current climate encouraging disrespect towards teachers is absolutely true. There are far more students (and parents) who hinder education with their attitude and it makes teachers' jobs tougher than in the past.

But I went to a Catholic grade school, so disrespect towards teachers wasn't something I saw happen a lot until I attended a public high school. <[:^)

I hope you do well as a teacher and you continue to love your work as you do now!
227 posted on 08/08/2005 7:52:00 PM PDT by spinestein (The facts fairly and honestly presented, truth will take care of itself.)
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